Greek House|W|P|Blasphemy! This years Wolves team should be interesting, if not good.Also, Daunte is overrated.
Also, Mike Tice is overrated. Any by overrated I mean still a coach of an organized football team.
SBG|W|P|You may be on to something there.Minnesota Vikings coach Mike Tice confirmed Monday that his star quarterback has a torn ACL, MCL and PCL in his right knee.Ugh. Here's something else you don't want to hear, from the Strib:
Tice added, �He has a long rehab ahead of him, but we don�t expect this to be career-ending. We expect this to be a set back for him.�Emphasis added. The fact that Tice even brought up the idea of career-ending should be enough to make your stomach turn. A very bad day for Vikings fans.|W|P|113078994470759998|W|P|It's Over|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
Unknown|W|P|Maybe Jason Kubel is ready to step in at QB.
|W|P|Did anyone else find themselves thinking, yet not having quite enough time to say aloud, "Stop! Get down, dammit!" on that run? I can't say I thought he'd get a season injury, but I was sure he was gonna get nailed. Probably could have seen it coming if I had an HDTV. And of course, DC tried to put a lick on the other guy - probably to boost the team.Watching the replay I just knew it wasn't good. A lot of people cringed at the Robert Ferguson injury last week, but I didn't think it looked too bad (and it wasn't). Culpepper's was just blatant.
So where are all the Brad Johnson cheerleaders now? He looked like a poor man's Chad Pennington out there. Yet I'm still considering bidding on him in my fantasy league. The shame.
SBG|W|P|I'm a Daunte guy. I've always been a Daunte guy. I realize he's not Joe Montana, very few are. I'm a Moss guy, too. Those two were beautiful together, even if they may not have been the best of friends.He has taken, I think, more abuse than he should for his play. Look at what kind of bargain basement offensive coordinator they have. And yeah, I was thinking get down, and on the live play I saw that he was hurt (the TV broke for the end of the quarter, so no replay for several minutes). Bad deal.
|W|P|I think the coordinator and coach (and O-line) are big problems. However, a part of me wonders what would have happened if we lured Plax this winter? Do you think he had a problem with DC? Or the coaching staff? Or Minnesota?It's by no means personal, but Torii Hunter said he isn't thrilled with the Twins' selection of a new hitting coach. As reported in the Pioneer Press on Thursday, the Twins promoted minor-league field coordinator Joe Vavra as hitting coach, replacing Scott Ullger, who will move to third-base coach. Hunter wanted more experience from which to learn. "I just work there," the Twins' Gold Glove center fielder said. "I better not comment." But, he added, "I never knew (Vavra) was a hitting coach. I wish they would have called me for some insight or whatever. Scottie wasn't so bad. But if they felt they needed to do something, go get Don Baylor or somebody like that. "I've played in the big leagues seven, eight years, and now we have a different hitting coach I feel probably can't help me. Not that I'm being cocky or anything. If Don Baylor or somebody who had been around, a Paul Molitor, that's somebody I probably would respect and listen to. "It's not being negative or anything, it's just that I'm pretty much where I'm supposed to be and I want to get better. But I'm only going to get better if I have somebody who has a track record."I don't have a whole to say about this that I haven't already said. I will say that I'm not surprised. Hunter's clearly bucking to be traded. What a team leader he is.|W|P|113072602028576791|W|P|Mr. Team Leader|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
|W|P|I really can't blame Hunter for taking a shot at management on this one. You could say, he shouldn't have done it through the media, but then again, if it's effective in sending a signal, then, well so be it.It is, in some respects, an act of leadership. It's certainlly more cowardly, to suck it up and say nothing when you feel managment is making a mistake. Hunter is simply challenging management to "do better". What's wrong with that?
Can you really blame Hunter for the comments? In the past few years, prior to the '05 campaign, the Twins were probably a legitimate "bat" away from getting to the World Series. Hunter, despite his well-chronicled flaws, was a valuable member of those teams and played a substatial role in their success. During this mini-run the Twins had, Ryan and Co. simply did not go for jugular by spending what it would have taken to put the team over the top. Hunter has consistently chided them to add some legitimate offense to compliment the core. You can say Hunter should have done more, but he was right, they needed some more horses.
The facts are: Hunter's not getting any younger, and as this year proved, the Twins, despite having excellent pitching are no lock for the playoffs. And, as a certain columnist pointed out over the weekend, the Twins are threatening to be a speck in the rearview mirror of Cleveland and Chicgo for the foreseable future.
In '05, management asked Hunter to be patient as they filled the infield with rookies and utility players and the whole offense collapsed.
Now, they are in the mode of remaking the offense and this is the first move? To hire a virtual unknown? Maybe it will turn out to be another "golden stroke of genius" by Terry Ryan, but you can see at face value that it certainly doesn't appear to be a "swashbuckling" organization defining move.
It makes it tough, when the players know this guy wasn't your first choice for the job. To some degree I blame Molitor and his wishy-washy commitment to the organization.
frightwig|W|P|On the one hand, I don't think Hunter is entirely wrong to question Vavras' credentials for his new job. Looking at his previous job description in the paper, it seems Vavras was promoted from an essentially administrative position. His hands-on coaching credentials apparently come from a managing position in the Dodgers org, more than a decado ago. On the other hand, Torii does this every winter. Guys get replaced by less experienced hands, and Torii gripes in the press. When the team did well the following season, Torii would come around; but, this season, he seemed to carry that chip on his shoulder all season. When the team had any troubles, he was quick to blame the youth. Think he'll be a more positive influence this year, after his buddy Jacque is the latest to go?
I believe that Terry Ryan could have done some things differently to bring in a big masher in the past few years. That includes cutting the cord on his friend Jacque. But it's also fact that when the club gave Torii his big contract a few years back, HE was supposed to be one of the big mashers who would carry the offense. As much as Torri has helped the team win 3 division titles, he also deserves a large share of the blame for the failure to get all the way over the hump--and for the slide back to 3rd place this season.
The future of the team is going to be built around Mauer/Morneau, hopefully Kubel, and the young pitching in the rotation behind Santana. It seems that Vavras was hired possibly because TR believes that a coach from the minors is best suited to helping the young foundation develop. If Torii isn't on board with that plan, it's a strike against him at this point. On the field, he's becoming less cost-effective: strike two. If his contract also prevents the GM from making any bold changes to the lineup this winter: strike three. Ship him out.
Heavy Critters|W|P|This comment has been removed by a blog administrator. Heavy Critters|W|P|The one thing that made me laugh was that he bemoans that he wasn't consulted by management.I don't think he's bucking for a trade. I think he wants to be Assistant GM.
Get rid of him. Free up that salary and use it help get a bopper.
SBG|W|P|Right, BP. He's talking like he's a multiple MVP award winner instead of a one-time All Star, which is what he is. |W|P|He's also talking like a guy who is paid $10 million per year. The Twins, by paying him that salary have indicated, by default, they feel he's an important player to them, regardless of how many MVP's he has or hasn't won. What is the criteria for speaking up if you don't think the organization is serious enough about winning? Now, maybe the Twins will decide they can deploy those resources in a more efficient manner, and they don't really need a streaky .260 hitter who hits 25 home runs and strikes out a lot. SBG|W|P|So, you don't think the Twins are serious about winning? You know, they could have left Scott Ulger as hitting coach. They could have gone to arbitration with Santana. I think that the Twins are serious about winning, but I also think that they have certain philosophies that they adhere to, like promoting from within.Hunter has been a huge off-season critic of the organization each of the last three years. That's what he does. When the Twins made their off-season moves following the 2003 season, Torii was yapping about breaking up the team. Funny, but those A.J. and Milton deals look pretty damned good right now.
Last year, he was complaining again. He openly campaigned to keep Jacque Jones with the team. I'll argue that keeping Jones instead of spending money on infielders was a huge source of the offensive problem this year.
Now, he's out in front, complaining again. His previous off-season "advice" has been marginal at best. In one respect, though, maybe he's right. Maybe he does need one helluva hitting coach to contain his ever growing ego and unlock his as yet unrealized potential.
|W|P|The "right" way to do it would be get your thoughts in before they did the hire. And after your suggestions are ignored, be a stand-up guy and say that you'll work with Joe and you're sure everything will be great.I think part of what makes Torii so popular in MN is a big part of wat makes him so frustrating to listen to when he says stuff like this. It's nice to hear a guy who really believes the Aw Shucks Just Playing A Game Here and doesn't see himself as a leader or the best player in the room. Minnesotans love that stuff. But when he says Ryan needs to go spend $10m on a leader instead of grabbing a baton and leading a little it makes you want to slap him.
If he gave it more than four seconds of deep thought he'd realize a couple things and be less frustrated.
1. It will be an internal/local hire. That is, Don Baylor's closet tie to the team is two months in 87, which puts him in line about thirty spots behind Terry Steinbach. This is neither good nor bad, merely an imutable fact of life in MN.
2. There are candidates that satisfy Torii's Need for Name and point #1, but both Molitor and Carew said no. If he'd shut up he might appreciate that Ryan tried to do what he suggested and it failed.
In closing I'd just like to point out that Torii is not saying anything bad about Joe's ability to do the job, just that he won't listen to him. "That's somebody I probably would respect and listen to...I'm pretty much where I'm supposed to be and I want to get better. But I'm only going to get better if I have somebody who has a track record." Very nice. Hit 30 HR or shut up and listen to the man.
Cris E
St Paul, MN
Marco Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar Diego Garcia Marquez|W|P|It's the Vikings, and it's not close. All that talent, and a 2-5 record to show for it. |W|P|What talent? frightwig|W|P|I had to vote for the Twins, just because they're the only team I really expected to do anything big this year. I never thought the Vikings would be any better than 8-8 again, and I expected the Wolves to regress--although missing the playoffs entirely was a surprise. But I thought the Twins would be at least as good as the 2004 team and had a chance to do what the White Sox did. If the Twins had a league-average offense this season (4.76 rpg), they could have been expected to win 93 games, same as Cleveland won. Given that and a little luck, who knows. To see all that potential and hope drain away by early August because the offense turned into the worst in the league is an awful shame.
Unknown|W|P|Moss thinks you meant "led." As in Led Zeppelin. (Who are the Rolling Stones??)"Lead" is a metallic element.
Chicago beats Houston 4 times in one week. Record still held by Bobby Brown.Thank you, you've been great. I'll not be here all weekend. SBG|W|P|113047377146342251|W|P|Three Day Weekend|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
frightwig|W|P|Almost worthy of Top Jimmy.Btw, I was wondering if Moss has noticed that one of Bill Simmons' readers, some punk named Andrew from Hadley, Mass., has claimed credit for thinking up the nickname "F-Her" for Felix Hernandez. Simmons called him a genius. That should have been you, Moss. That should have been you!
SBG|W|P|Moss made a special point of pointing that out to me. Unknown|W|P|Moss left work two seconds early that day in protest. Unknown|W|P|One of Moss' favorite lines from a comedian:"You're welcome. I've been great."
AUSTIN, TEXAS -- Denise Voigt Crawford, Texas Securities Commissioner, announced today that Russell Allen Erxleben was sentenced by United States District Court Judge James R. Nowlin to a total of 84 months in federal prison, a $1 million fine, and $28 million in restitution in connection with Erxleben�s conviction for one count of conspiracy to commit securities fraud, mail fraud, and money laundering, and a second count of securities fraud in connection with his activities as president of Austin Forex International, Inc. ... Russell Allen Erxleben was the president and majority shareholder of Austin Forex, an Austin-based company that solicited investors for the purpose of investing in foreign currency markets. From approximately October, 1996 until September, 1998, Austin Forex and Erxleben raised in excess of $50 million from over 800 investors, with the vast majority of the funds collected in 1998. Generally, the investors were solicited directly by Erxleben through an extensive network of contacts, often based on his notoriety as a former University of Texas and professional football player. In addition to the trading losses Austin Forex incurred, funds invested in Austin Forex were dissipated in a variety of other ways. Sometimes, new investor funds were distributed back to earlier investors as illusory profits, while other funds were spent on luxury office space, luxury cars, entertainment and travel.Russell! And here I thought kickers were good guys... (Of course, former Viking Donald Igwebuike was implicated, but not convicted, in a heroin smuggling ring. Turns out he's now a cab driver. Update: Oops. The article here is about another kicker not our beloved Viking kicker. Thanks to spycake for reading the article and pointing out. In my defense, the article is pretty long. But, I didn't read it. Oy vay!) I went to Wikipedia and found this little nugget about that "network of contacts."
On September 18, 2000, Erxleben was subsequently sentenced by United States District Court Judge James R. Nowlin to 84 months in prison, and ordered to pay a total of $28 million in restitution and a one million dollar fine. Erxleben's lawyers, the law firm of Locke, Liddell & Sapp, settled a related lawsuit for $22m in 2000. The current nominee for Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, Harriet Miers, was a co-manager at the law firm during AFI's reported criminal activity.I wonder how Miss Miers felt when her firm had to swallow $22 million to avoid litigation from a bunch of swindled investors. As a Christian, I'm sure she felt bad. Thanks, Twins Junkie, for that off-hand comment. It made my day. Update: Billions of people apparently includes the FORMER nominee for Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, Harriet Miers, who obviously read this and decided to withdraw her nomination. 2. How could this not involve George Costanza? 3. The Chicago White Sox have won the World Series Championship for the first time in 88 years, sweeping away the Houston Astros. The baseball gods are funny. Look who has won the World Series since the Yankees last won. Arizona, the Angels, the Marlins, the Red Sox, and the White Sox. (And both the White and Red Sox, both long suffering, both sweep the World Series in consecutive years.) The Marlins and Diamondbacks probably piss off a lot of teams because of their relative short histories (especially the Marlins with two World Championships already) but at least these teams beat the Yankees. But those other three teams are three of the most frustrated franchises in baseball. After the sickening run of the Yankees interrupted only by the Rent-A-Championship Marlin team, it's been refreshing to see teams like this win. Of course, it's arguable that the Red Sox are almost as despicable as the Yankees. I'm looking forward to the Cubs, Giants, and Indians, who most assuredly will be winning soon. Unless the gods change their mind and shove the Yankees down our throats again. 4. What about the job Seth Stohs has been doing lately? The guy has been really stepping it up. His interviews with players, writers, and guys like James Mathewson (cmathewson at the now defunct Twins Territory). He's truly the hardest working Twins blogger out there. If only he'd hook up with haloscan or something so that people could comment there. 5. Speaking of Twins Territory, I wanted to send out one more Valentine to John Bonnes. I was talking to Seth (actually e-mailing) about site traffic. I'm surprised that my traffic has gone up lately. His has too. (Yes, we talk about these kinds of things...) We both agree that since John called it quits, more people have been coming over to read our sites. John, your readers are still out there and now they are coming to read people like Seth and me. Thanks again for all you did to create the Twins blogging community. 6. In the Wild Card entry that I put together yesterday, I wrote about the increasing pressure that I felt to improve my writing in part because of my increased readership, but also because I keep finding out about people who are interesting. Look forward to a great interview I'm working on with one of my readers next week. Well, anyway, I wrote "I�m feeling more pressure to quit writing half-baked crap and actually work on my columns more." I got an e-mail from a reader today in reaction to that comment. Wrote my reader:
My Gaaawd! Don't ever stop the "half-baked crap"! That's a big part of what makes this all work. And if you start seriously editing yourself, that second-guessing will make the writing seem like a job job. That's the begining of the end.Then he preceded to answer everyone of the Pepper! questions. My favorite: his answer to the "Bold Move the Twins Should Make in the Off-Season":
Re-sign Doug Mientkiewicz and make him our second baseman. He'd hit better than the Punto, have more range than Boone, and give us more "rah-rah" than Rodriguez. Better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in.Good stuff! Thanks for the e-mail and look for more half-baked crap in the future! 7. Here are the contest results, finally.
| AAC | FRW | BEM | TWJ | TEB | SBG | CHC | GEB | RED | APH | DEP | ANM | AMR |
| 1196 | 903 | 767 | 517 | 375 | 151 | 15 | 0 | -24 | -205 | -235 | -503 | -916 |
The Pilots ownership group had financial problems. The club operated at a small loss in the first season, and the richest partner refused to put more money in the club without seeing an immediate profit, while the other two partners couldn't afford to invest any more. It's also said that fans stayed away from the park late in the season, in disgusted protest at the primary owner's threat to pull out if Seattle didn't get his bottom line in the black. Two attempts to sell the team fell through, while the Bank of California came calling for repayment of the $4m loan put up for the initial startup of the club. That's when Selig swooped in. While local officials threatened to sue if the Pilots moved out of town, and the AL publicly vowed to hold the sale open for a Seattle buyer, Selig had secretly arranged to buy the club for $10.8 million. In March, the state got an injunction to prevent the club from moving; the owners countered by filing for bankruptcy. They hoped that if the court could order the sale to Selig to be completed, then the club and league could escape any lawsuits. On April 1, 1970, as spring training was closing, a judge ruled that the Pilots were bankrupt and ordered the sale to Selig. The equipment truck drivers got a call to go to Milwaukee, and the Pilots logos and lettering were pulled off the uniforms, with "Brewers" lettering stitched in their place, in the days just before the season started. On April 7, the Brewers played their first game, in Milwaukee, vs. the Angels. They lost, 12-0. When Selig sold the Brewers earlier this year, the price to the Attanasio group was $233 million.Thanks, frightwig, for a great synopsis of the situation there. There ought to be a rule against used car salesmen from owning professional sports franchises, if you known what I mean. 15. The Aaron Gleeman creation, The Hardball Times, is a fantastic site. Great stuff. I love Dave Studeman's stuff and he's offically a friend of SBG, The Mag. Earlier this week I was reading and found a great article on defense. If you remember, I wrote a while back that the Twins' defense, contrary to what some people thought, was improved in 2005. I didn't know why. Maybe it's because they had the best defensive shortstop in the AL. Oh, and that rookie that couldn't defend? Turns out he isn't that bad, either. Every player's defense will be evaluated in The Hardball Times Baseball Annual 2006. I'll be buying a copy. 16. ESPN rates every starter in the NBA between 1 and 10. Five players rated a ten. The Daddy. Wade. LeBron. Duncan. And my man. My buddy Moss hates the NBA. And he hates The Daddy. But, lately, I've sensed that he's finally coming around and begrudgingly recognizing The Daddy's greatness.
|W|P|I read your Donald Iguebuike/cab driver link, and I believe the cab driver on whom the article concentrates is Obed Ariri, not Iguebuike, and he merely interacted with Iguebuike when they were both amateur athletes and later when they were competing for the Tamba kicking job.Darn it! You got my hopes up. Ever since I saw a post about Fuad Reveiz somewhere, I've been wondering what Igwebuike is up to these days...
SBG|W|P|Shoot! I've been googling like crazy tonight and I didn't read the damned article. Sorry about that! More half-baked crap from SBG!!!!! frightwig|W|P|The Pilots info comes from a mixture of accumulated knowledge of Seattle baseball lore and a little quick research. I forgot to mention the background on the Pilots ballpark situation: the Pilots played in Sicks' Stadium (now the site of a hardware store in North Seattle), a minor league park which had new stands under construction even as the '69 season opened. There were disputes between the city and owners about the lease: in June, the owners stopped paying rent, and the mayor retaliated by threatening to evict the club from Sicks' Stadium. Selig says that reading news of that threat is what got him to call the Pilots owners in the first place.
However, the construction of a new stadium in Seattle was not an issue. A pledge to build a domed stadium within three years was a condition of the AL awarding the franchise to Seattle, and King County in 1969 had passed a bond plan to fund the project with 62% approval. So that wasn't a problem. The Pilots could have stayed in Seattle if either of the first two attempts to sell the club had been finalized. The club was sold to Selig because of the owners' own financial problems and lack of commitment for the long haul; Selig took the Pilots to Milwaukee because that was always his motive for buying a club.
|W|P|70% of my hits coming from Google isn't nearly as impressive as 90% of your hits coming from other baseball sites. I think I'd rather have it the other way around. People seem to come to your site on purpose, whereas they get to my site by chance (and then probably quickly leave). Ha!And you now have the only picture of Steve Perry as Robocop that I know of. The original posting site, peachstapler.com, has taken the picture down in favor of other pictures of dubious quality. I must say I still get a big kick out of the Perry picture.
And I'd also like to add that Shaq is the best player in the NBA. KG is one of the best, but he doesn't change the game like Shaq does. When Shaq is on the floor the game changes. He is like a hurricane and he must be accounted for both on offense and defense. KG? Yes, but not in the same way.
Nice post today, SBG. Lots of stuff to ponder.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|All hail the great Bud Selig! Comedy Club|W|P|I always figured it was Kastanza amr|W|P|I feel a need to brag about my showing in the contest. -917! And I usually just stayed to the weekday games! I did worse than frightwig did good! (although that's easier with the spread). Even spreadless, the exact opposite of my bets would have probably come in at third or so.My secret? Put the money on the team with the biggest payout every day.
|W|P|I like the regular season plenty too but it's ALL about the playoffs. Today is the anniversary of the Puckett game in '91... you want more of that you need to be playing playoff ball.We're on the outside looking in for the first time in 3 years and it sucks. Give me the playoffs any day.
|W|P|Of course it's better to make the playoffs than not make the playoffs, and of course if there were no post-season the regular season wouldn't be as interesting. No one is arguing against the post-season. It's just that when I think of the pleasure and romance of baseball, there is more of that in the regular season. There isn't a right or wrong answer here. It's just a matter of taste. SBG|W|P|That's right, it is a matter of taste. I like 'em both. Just the regular season more.Boy, last night's game was tension filled and a crusher for the Astros. The White Sox have been lights out since Opening Day. And now, 10-1 in the playoffs. Unbelievable. Great post season this year.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Last night showed how extruciating bad playoff baseball can be. The 9th inning was finishing up 4 HOURS AFTER THE GAME STARTED!!! Give me a f*cking break. There was no rain delay, no Morganna the Kissing Bandit out there to delay the game. (Anybody out there miss her as well?) That is just sad.The Astros are now experiencing what the Brewers already knew about Phil Garner: he sucks as a manager, especially with pitchers. He's being exposed as the fraud he is, especially after last night's meltdown.
Heavy Critters|W|P|Yeah, but Garner got them to the dance, yo. No matter how they got there, they got there.Can't ask for more than that.
|W|P|No one is arguing against the post-season.I didn't say anyone was. What I'm saying is I want playoff ball. I want Nathan on the mound in Yankee Stadium. I want "and we'll see you tomorrow night!" I want Buckner and Aaron Boone and Sid Bream and Kirk Gibson and all the rest.
But that's just a matter of taste...
|W|P|I should say that of course I would prefer that the Twins were in the playoffs, but to me, that's just a bonus.It's like when I went to a couple of Twins bobblehead games. Of course I wanted to get a bobblehead, but mainly I was just excited to see the game. The bobblehead was just a bonus.
Playoff baseball is great and so intense, but I love the regular season.
Seth
SBG|W|P|Seth, you only had 60 words! frightwig|W|P|The Pilots ownership group had financial problems. The club operated at a small loss in the first season, and the richest partner refused to put more money in the club without seeing an immediate profit, while the other two partners couldn't afford to invest any more. It's also said that fans stayed away from the park late in the season, in disgusted protest at the primary owner's threat to pull out if Seattle didn't get his bottom line in the black. Two attempts to sell the team fell through, while the Bank of California came calling for repayment of the $4m loan put up for the initial startup of the club. That's when Selig swooped in. While local officials threatened to sue if the Pilots moved out of town, and the AL publicly vowed to hold the sale open for a Seattle buyer, Selig had secretly arranged to buy the club for $10.8 million. In March, the state got an injunction to prevent the club from moving; the owners countered by filing for bankruptcy. They hoped that if the court could order the sale to Selig to be completed, then the club and league could escape any lawsuits.
On April 1, 1970, as spring training was closing, a judge ruled that the Pilots were bankrupt and ordered the sale to Selig. The equipment truck drivers got a call to go to Milwaukee, and the Pilots logos and lettering were pulled off the uniforms, with "Brewers" lettering stitched in their place, in the days just before the season started. On April 7, the Brewers played their first game, in Milwaukee, vs. the Angels. They lost, 12-0.
When Selig sold the Brewers earlier this year, the price to the Attanasio group was $233 million.
SBG|W|P|Great stuff, fw, as always. |W|P|I really wish I could say KG, but I have to go with Duncan. Every single night Duncan quietly puts up impressive numbers, and most importantly, makes every single player around him better. KG did this his MVP year, hopefully last year was an anomoly. SBG|W|P|I'm a KG guy all the way. John Hollinger from ESPN calls him the best player in the league.Having said that, I've had a gnawing feeling that Duncan is better. However, even though they won the championship, Duncan showed some vulnerability in the playoffs last year.
I think it's outrageous that KG wasn't first team all-NBA. Dirk Nowitski??? Come on! He's a scorer, but where else does he hold a candle to my guy?
Unknown|W|P|Doody Eebie. Oh, you said NBA, not NBDL. My bad. Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Dwayne Wade. How often does a player this early in his career get talked about for MVP? |W|P|I think KG is the best in the business as well, but until you have a convict ask for his prison term to be as many years as your jersey number, you have't reached icon status. SBG|W|P|Yeah, well that guy would have been well advised to ask for KG's number!!!!! frightwig|W|P|I like Duncan's total game better than KG's, but there probably isn't much difference between them in general value. Duncan gets more offensive boards and blocked shots, and commits fewer turnovers. KG gets more defensive boards, assists, and steals. Duncan's career scoring average is 2.3 pts higher than KG's, but last season KG had the advantage of 1.9 ppg over Duncan. I have a gut feeling that Duncan is a more versatile player, but maybe it's just a matter of taste. Honestly, I'm surprised in you, SBG--no valentine for Shaq-Fu?
LeBron, Amare, and Wade could be primed to take over, any time now.
SBG|W|P|Make no mistake, I love the Daddy! |W|P|Yes, you're going out on a limb there, SBG! Here is my prediction: there will be one more feeble attempt to call a special session. I don't believe it will work, but T-Paw is going to give it one more try.Did you also here that the Gophers have given up on lobbying? Maturi has said that it is all up to the Twins now to convince the governor.
In the end, though, I agree with you SBG. No stadium this year. Or any year for that matter. Not until the Twins leave. That is just the way we do it here in Minnesota (remember the North Stars?). I am resigning myself to that fate.
SBG|W|P|Yeah, I'm pretty down about the state of the Twins future here. After a weekend of controversy, I'm all tapped out.When the Twins will leave, we will have lost three major sports teams. Don't forget the Lakers.
|W|P|Why a roof, SBG? To me, that's just another step from ballpark to behemoth. The luxury suites, club levels, and unnecessary "attractions" will be too much -- I don't want a huge roof apparatus hanging over the side to be used a handful of days per year. Brave the elements! Be one with nature! |W|P|Vikings? I am so proud of Daunte. What a game for him. This was his finest hour. He just let it rip in the second half and the results were fantastic. He was simply hot and the Vikings rode the wave. Yeah the Packers D was horrible, but the way things have went for Daunte this year, he needed that one. This second half run by him shows you that he still has lot of good football left in him. Here's hoping that Daunte can keep playing like that and the receivers can get hot because if happens, the Vikings got a golden shot to win the division.As for Mike Tice, it was about time he let loose. That team has had it coming IMO. I am glad Tice let the players have it. Twins stadium? I spoke to SBG about in an email. I am very concerned with the future of the Twins in Minnesota. With Governor
Pawlenty not likely calling the special session and the fact the Twins are suing
to get out of that Metrodome lease, I can't help but think this franchise could
be playing its last year of baseball here in Minnesota next season. With
Portland having a stadium ready, the Twins could be there in 2007 or 2008 if the
stadium proposal expires by the end of 2005.
I am clearly at a loss to why the state has no interest in giving the Twins that
stadium. This stadium deal is very good. Carl Pohlad is paying most of the money
to build that stadium. It should be a no-brainer. I for one don't get it. The
Twins can provide an economic growth to the state like more jobs and more
businesses.
Look what the NHL's Minnesota Wild have done at St. Paul. That city is buzzing
when the Wild play their home games.
A new stadium can attract not lot of fans in Minnesota, but the entire region of
the Upper Midwest like North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, and
Wisconsin. The state benefits from that. What part of that does the state of
Minnesota don't understand?
I am befuddled to see why Minnesota have zero interst in having a new stadium
for the Twins. If the Twins are gone, that's it. There won't be Major League Baseball for a very long time.
I have come to accept the fact the Twins are out of Minnesota and that there won't be a stadium. It's very frustrating, but I can't blame Pohlad for doing
what he has to do.
SBG|W|P|One thing you can be certain of -- if the Twins leave, we won't see MLB here for a very long time. |W|P|Mauer winning the MVP for the Las Vegas OddsMakers just doesn't have the same ring to it. |W|P|Screw Pohlad and Pawlenty. There is a law in place requiring a public referendum for state (i.e. pubic) funding for a new stadium.If Pohlad were to make a few nice overtones, such as lowering concession/ticket/parking prices, or bring some glory to the region by signing top talent to win the World Series, I could see my way to voting on a referendum for a new stadium.
I hate, hate, HATE the way he tries to get around a public referendum. I refuse to support him as long as he keeps doing that.
And screw Pawlenty for aiding and abetting Pohlad in these dispicable attempts.
SBG|W|P|I think the law is for state money only, although I'm not sure. So, even though there is public (watch the spelling) money involved, I don't believe the statute that you are talking about is implicated because it is not raised by the State of Minnesota. If someone has more information on that particular statute (or is a law student who can research it for free), let me know and I'll discuss it. |W|P|Yeah, that sure was one hell of a spelling for public, wasn't it? Sorry about that. Didn't mean to.If I recall correctly, Pawlenty wanted to call the special session to waive the referendum requirement on Hennepin County's proposal.
On the other hand, I don't think the majority in Hennepin County want it, and I'll vote against it if it becomes a referendum here.
Pohlad's a jerk. He tried to blackmail the state, he voted to contract the team, and generally acts as though he still deserves the state's (i.e. the public's) help.
I won't give him a dime if I can help it, unless he starts making a case that he deserves it.
|W|P|Nick, you've got your facts all wrong. The stadium proposal requires no state money. The special session is required to enable a local government (Hennepin County in this case) to enact a local sales tax. Hennepin County (+/- $300M) and the Twins (+/- $125M) are proposing paying for the stadium
See: http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/05/02_williamsb_stadium/
I also dispute your assertion that Pohlad has done nothing to make a case he "deserves" it, although this is just my opinion. He has had the highest payroll in the Central Division 3 of the last 4 years. His teams have been competitive, and he has agreed to commit some pretty serious coin to keeping Twins players on the roster (Hunter, Santana, Radke, etc). He can't lower parking costs...he gets none of that revenue.
Don't like a stadium? Fine. But at least get your facts straight.
-TEB
SBG|W|P|Thanks, TEB. frightwig|W|P|SBG, what makes you think the Twins are "all in" this time? Haven't you heard that bluff before?Re: payrolls in the Central. According to USA Today, the Twins 2005 payroll of $56m was 3rd in the division (20th in majors), behind Chicago ($75m) and Detroit ($69m). In 2004, the Twins payroll of $53m (19th in majors) was 2nd to Chicago's $65m. In 2003, the Twins payroll of $55m was tops in the division (18th in the majors); Chicago was 2nd with $51m. In 2002, the Twins payroll of $40m was the lowest in the division (27th in the majors); Cleveland was tops at $79m. In 2001, the Twins payroll of $24m was dead last in the major leagues.
I don't think Carl is really trying too hard to win over stadium opponents by spending to win on the field. At the same time, he's trying to get away with making a minimal investment in any stadium proposal, while suggesting a total budget far beyond the costs of some recently completed ballparks, and he demands to keep all profits generated by the new park--including surrounding parking.
I don't think it's a good deal. In a decade, he still hasn't convinced his opponents that he's offered a good deal, and I don't think he's really trying to win people over by negotiating in good faith. The latest proposal is another ultimatum: gimme, or else--and this time, we mean it!
Well, why should the skeptical public give in this time, unless they're convinced that the blackmailers really will carry out their threats if they don't get their money this year? I don't believe them. Why should I?
Pete Rose remains the pariah of MLB, but the league is about to put a franchise right in the gambling capital of America? Seriously?
Oregon? The state is bleeding money, and there is no state commitment to kick in $375 million there, or the will and public support, either.
Rather than working out a fair deal, Pohlad is trying to scare us with boogeymen. Well, what else is new? If that's the game he still wants to play, he can do it without my help.
SBG|W|P|The reason I say that they are all in, is because I think that if they threaten to sell to MLB if they don't get a stadium and they don't follow through, I say that those who say don't build the Twins a stadium win. There doesn't seem to be any other credible threat out there. But, if the Twins follow through and sell to MLB, then the state of Minnesota loses. frightwig|W|P|Pohlad has threatened to move without following through before, hasn't he? Over the years, I think he's made a lot of promises and threats that he didn't carry out. Maybe he should've learned after the North Carolina debacle that he might do better if he could negotiate the deal without basing his position on a threat in the first place.
In my view, if Pohlad sells to MLB, or anyone else, it's not game over. It just means the state will be bargaining with a different partner.
|W|P|I'm not against a public-funded stadium. I am against public funding of a stadium to help Pohlad.I'm perfectly aware that Pohlad doesn't pull in any profits from concessions or parking. He could still lower prices by subsidizing these sales to a small extent. Such a gesture would also go a long way to repairing the ill-will towards him for the threatened move, and the threatened contraction.
He is trying to use the public as his bank, and if the public were a bank, they'd look at his previous behavior and declare him a bad risk. He should convince the public that he is not a bad risk.
|W|P|Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion.But it's gonna suck bad telling the anti-stadium crowd "see, we told you so" when the Twins are gone. I hope your extra pennies bring you much enjoyment.
-TEB
frightwig|W|P|If the Twins ever pull out of Minnesota, direct your anger at Pohlad. He's the one who has chosen to make the issue an "all or nothing" fight. He's chosen to make relocation/contraction a primary option, ahead of a solution of compromise. He or his successor will be the one with the power to execute the threat. Pohlad is in a position of asking the public for a huge favor. The favor of investing $375m, or 75% of the project budget, into his private business development, with the promise of little in direct returns on that investment. Over the past decade, how well has he handled himself in that situation? How has he made that pitch? Has he ever tried anything besides "gimme, or else"?
|W|P|You don't have to apologize, SBG. I wasn't offended. I disagree with your assertion of what Doug said, but your comments did not bother me.You mentioned Dougie going at it with Morneau. Notice how Torii, several unnamed vets, and Ron Gardenhire have been calling Morneau and Ford out. Don't you think maybe those two may be a problem?
The funny thing is I wouldn't mind having Doug back if he is interested to come back, but with that article, he may have burned his bridge for good.
|W|P|Doug will never come back, and we don't want him. He is way overpaid for a guy who can't hit:)"I know Joe Mauer was waiting, but I thought at the time the Twins were crazy to trade A.J.," Mientkiewicz said. "Joe probably has more talent than A.J. I'm sure he does. But until Joe gets his guys to the playoffs . . . I'll take A.J."My reactions: 1. {SHUT UP} Doug, you ignorant moron. If this wasn't the best trade in the history of the franchise, it's certainly on the short list. 2. Mauer is twice the player that A.J. is right now. Mauer's VORP in 2005 was 40.9, Pierzynski's was 17.7. Mauer's VORP was the third best of any catcher in all of baseball. Thirty teams, and we have the third best catcher. And he's 22 years old. A.J.? He was 20th best. In other words, below average. 3. That trade allowed the Twins to save millions at the catcher position. A.J. got $3 million in arbitration in 2004, Mauer made about $300,000. 4. Eddie Guardado made $4 million in 2004 and $6 million in 2005. We got Joe Nathan in that trade. He made $440,000 in 2004 and $2,100,000 in 2005, a savings of $7.5 million. Eddie got hurt and missed most of 2004. Nathan had 87 saves over the last two years. Of course, saves isn't the best metric. So, let's look at expected wins added over replacement player. Nathan had 4.026 (5th in the AL) in 2005 and 7.358 (best in the AL) in 2004. Eddie? He had 2.444 in 2005 and 1.780 in 2004. So, we saved $7.5 million and got 7.16 more expected wins over replacement. 5. We also got Francisco Liriano in that deal, the minor league player of the year, who looks for all the world to be a future number 2 starter on this staff (behind Santana). 6. We also got Boof Bonser in the deal, a hard throwing starting pitcher who had a very good year at Rochester and could be a good pitcher for this team or a valuable trade piece. In fairness to Reusse, who is my favorite columnist in town, he does mention the abundance of wealth that the Twins got in the trade and he says that it was the kind of trade that the Twins would make "again and again." But, make no mistake, Reusse is taking some veiled shots at the Franchise Player. First, he calls A.J. an "ironman" catcher, reminding us that Mauer got hurt last year. For the record, Mauer played 3 more games this year than A.J., although some of them were as a DH. Mauer's durability was not a question this year. Second, he seems to be taking shots at Mauer's leadership. As you know, I'm not a believer in the value of a player's "leadership." This is what I believe. Leadership should come from the top of the organization. The owner has to be committed to winning, the general manager has to make astute decisions about player personnel (and club management) and the manager has to lead the team. Our manager plays favorites, makes ridiculous decisions about offensive and defensive strategy, and routinely runs down players in the media. There is your proverbial failure of leadership. A.J. or Hunter? In my opinion, they have little, if any, impact on the fortunes on the club other than their play on the effing field. It has to come from the goddamned manager. Oh, and winning breeds "chemistry" and not the other way around. Third, I can't believe he put that Mientkiewicz comment in the paper. Let's look again at what that moron Mientkiewicz said. He'd take A.J. over Mauer because A.J. lead his team to the playoffs. People, this is ridiculous on its face. You do see that, don't you? It's also the same thinking applied to Jeter. He's more "valuable" or "you'd take him" over A-Rod because of his four rings. It's also ridiculous on its face. But, I'll say this. It's not as ridiculous as taking A.J. Pierzynski over Joe Mauer. So, I say it again. {SHUT UP} Doug, you ignorant moron. And Reusse, if you believe that crap, you get the same invitation.|W|P|113001156615385274|W|P|Stupidity Runs Wild|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
Heavy Critters|W|P|Wow, I thought this was a family show!I agree. Minty is only talking from the sentimetal "past". He an AJ came up together, played together, went to the ALDS/CS together, made love togeth...never mind.
I'd take Mauer every day of the week and twice on Sunday. BUT, AJ sure as hell is fun to watch, no?
Bloody P
|W|P|SBG: I never thought Doug was out to rip Mauer. I think what Doug meant to say in general that this team had too many choir boys who could not play or provide energy. Mauer had a good season, but the jury is still out whether he can lead and do the little things like A.J. did in the playoffs. Doug|W|P|While we ChiSox fans are sure glad to have AJ, obviously, the Twins' decision to go with Mauer was correct and logical. They didn't fade this year because of Joe Mauer, they faded because their infantile preoccupation with mediocre veterans keeps their farm system talent from having its true impact. |W|P|Wow. Such language. In response to your diatribe, I may not be Mientkiewicz's biggest fan, but to paraphrase a favorite movie line..."I do not think he means what you think he means."
SBG|W|P|Leslie:Excuse me, but Mauer is twice the player that AJ is. No offense to AJ, I liked him and still do.
Doug said, without qualification, that he'd take AJ because Joe hasn't got his guys to the playoffs.
Did AJ "get" the Twins to the playoffs? What did he do that Mauer hasn't? Mauer's a much better hitter and he's got a cannon for an arm. All I can think of is that AJ needled the other side.
This is what it comes down to? Mauer isn't a big jerk (and I say that nicely, I liked AJ) and so we take the obviously inferior player?
Here's my take on Doug. He still holds a huge grudge against the organization for daring to go with Morneau and cutting him loose. That was the correct decision, too, even though Morneau struggled this year. He used this opportunity to take a shot at the organization, and he decided to pile on a guy whose jockstrap he is not fit to carry. That's why I Cheneyed him.
|W|P|So, you expect Dougie baseball to provide a quote as if he's a general manager and not a player? C'mon SBG. Your venom should be exslusively at the writer. And even that's a bit unfair. What do you think your quote would be if your firm fired you and Moss for a couple of lower-priced attorneys who they thought had more talent? Your gonna tell me on some level you wouldn't take it personally?
The paper is in business to sell papers and make money. You can't deny AJ in the series is a legitimate local story. He was a popular player here. He had some big hits people remember. To quote Doug is logical. He's a bigmouth and he's gonna say something controversial or stupid. So what. Let it go, man, before you have the big one. It's a stupid angle, I agree, but the paper-reading stiffs love this stuff.
The past few days everyone's ready to take up arms over the media's fawning all over Jeter. Well "The Chairmen" gets the same treatment in this media market. Yeah, he had a terrific season. Yeah, he's an uber-talent and you can't deny that for the Twins jetisoning AJ was the right move, but he's not the Messiah (yet). There's some truth to that.
SBG|W|P|He's not the Messiah yet. Yeah, the media is pretty soft on the hometown boy, but they did print the old "He's been pampered all his life" quote by Stelmazcek (sp).The more I think about it, the more I wish I'd have toned it down a little. I am going to address that in my next post.
I think Reusse was praising AJ in the article, first and foremost. That's why I didn't really go after him. I did see a jab at Mauer in there pretty clearly. Considering the sad state of the Twins offense, he's absolutely the last guy I'd go after. Morneau? I love Justin, but I'm going to go after him this week.
|W|P|Joe Mauer is going to be fine, SBG. I think he will get better as he continues to get experience. I just think it's too premature to say that he has it in him just yet which is why the jury is still you. We all thought Morneau was going to be this big HR hitter, but now you got folks like me questioning Morneau's willingness to win.A.J. did brought things to the table like grit, energy, leadership, and etc. The thing he did with the White Sox like he did here. That's what Doug is talking about. I think Joe Mauer will eventually do that.
I never got the impression that Doug took shots at the Twins. I think he was giving his opinion. He has that right not to mention that he was sticking out for his best friend.
|W|P|Nice editing SBG. Frankly, maybe you ought to have a RAW and UNCUT version of the site. I've not seen that done at a conventional blog such as yours.Speaking of Reusse, have you heard the caller they identify as "Our Patrick" who does the Reusse impersonation on the Common Man show? Whoever the caller is just nails Reusse.
He has so many of the vocal mannerisms down it's uncanny. Also, if the guy is ad-libbing (Is that a word?) he's such a student of Reusse that his schtick is so close to how Reusse actually dissects a situation it's frightening - but it's done with tongue so clearly in-cheek. It's the best bit on radio today and far funnier than Carl Gerbschmidt on Barriero, which I personally think is totally lame.
SBG|W|P|Yeah, if anyone hasn't seen what I wrote and can't figure it out especially with the Cheney clue, e-mail me and I'll spell it out.Let's just put it this way. Common Man is all that. And you are right, that Reusse impression is golden.
I like Our Patrick, even if he's uneven. He's about the only guy in town who will pull out the knife and take a cut when needed. Other times, he sounds like he's not been paying attention at all. Nevertheless, I look forward to Thanksgiving Day for his annual Turkey of the Year column.
|W|P|Is it me or is Carl Gerbschmidt fake?I think it's someone on the station that mimics Gerbschmidt.
SBG|W|P|He's clearly fake. |W|P|I don't get to listen to TC radio anymore, so I wish I could comment on Our Patrick. But I do have one about Dougie. What I feel is that Mientkiewicz is not mad because he was traded but because the entire nucleus was not kept together like it was for the 1987 run. The Twins could have kept Doug, AJ, Lawton, Ortiz, Hunter, Koskie, Jones, and gone out and bought a double-play combo and maybe some more pitching. Had that happened, the Twins would have won it all. Maybe twice by now. Then again, the 1987 and 1991 teams didn't have to deal with Divisional Serieses. |W|P|'Is it me or is Carl Gerbschmidt fake?I think it's someone on the station that mimics Gerbschmidt."
I think Kevin Siefert (strib Vikings beat writer) is Carl Gerbschmidt as well as Sol on Hartman's show on KFAN. If you listen to Siefert on Barriero's show on the FAN you can hear the similarities in their voices. I agree, Carl is a lame bit.
"Our Patrick" is the best bit on TC radio since Tony Lee's Tok on KQRS.
Heavy Critters|W|P|As someone who considers the Yankees his 29th favorite team, and the White Sox his 30th favorite team...I'm going Astros. |W|P|Any Twins fan who is rooting for the White Sox should have their head examined. Longtime Twins fans or Twins fans who jumped on the bandwagon in 2001 will realize that there is no love lost with the Twins and the White Sox from the announers to the managers to the front office and all. Just seeing Ozzie, Jerry Reinsdorf (the man that led the efforts to contract the Twins), and the White Sox get trophy would make me vomit. If there is God, I hope the Astros win it all.
SBG|W|P|Yeah, there's a lot of reason not to like the Chisox if you are a Twins fan. No doubt about it. But, I'm still a little ambivalent. I mean, I used to hate the Canseco A's and I rejoiced when the Dodgers took it to them. The 1988 World Series is one of my favorites (not including 1987 and 1991, OF COURSE). Maybe I need a good attitude adjustment to get my head on straight. |W|P|I used to hate the A's as a kid. Twins and A's used to have that rivalry back in the day. That was hated for sure. Those A's teams were brash and they look down on everyone like the White Sox in the last few years including this year. |W|P|You might be right about Jeter and A-Rod. I wanted to test your theory so I did a little homework via google. I found this.06302005
Fight Night at Yankee Stadium
PALS AFOUL
New York Yankee stars Derek Jeter and Alex �A-Rod� Rodriguez have stopped beating themselves up for their team�s worst season in over a decade�and started beating on each other. On June 20, after a throwing error from Jeter to Rodriguez handed the Yankees a 5-4 loss to the last-place Tampa Bay Devil Rays, a TV producer says the sluggers came to blows in the clubhouse.
�I was doing an interview in the locker room and saw them go at it,� says the source. �A-Rod walked past Jeter�s locker and mumbled something about his throw, then Jeter told him to go f---- himself and all hell broke lose. Their teammates were pulling them away from each other.�
Tensions between the two have been brewing since Rodriguez dissed Jeter in a 2001 Esquire interview. As a result, we hear, Jeter, the Gold Glove-winning team captain, never wanted his ex-pal on the team in the first place�but Yankees boss George Steinbrenner didn�t listen.
�Now you have guys like Bernie Williams who remember winning the World Series taking Jeter�s side, and then you have the trades, like Tony Womack, taking A-Rod�s side,� says a ballclub insider. �What you have is a team that�s split, and you can�t win baseball games like that.� Yankees spokesman Rick Cerrone called the fight an �absolute fantasy,� and denied any rift between the players, claiming �there are no lines drawn in the clubhouse.� Not since Darryl Strawberry anyway.
But we all know that clubhouse chemistry is overatted, so really, it wouldn't matter if Jeter did call off the dogs, these guys would still hate each other anyway. Both seem pretty focused on doing their respective jobs anyway. Another reason it won't happen? These guys are both alpha dogs, doing touch-feely favors probably never enters their mind.
|W|P|I, also, much prefer the regular season to the post-season. Maybe it comes from growing up rooting for Twins teams that usually didn't make the playoffs.Baseball, to me, is about listening to Herb and whoever his partner happened to be on the radio on a summer night. Sure, I have fond memories of Harmon and Tony O and Rodney, but I also have fond memories of lesser players like Larry Hisle and John Castino, and even guys like Glenn Adams, Rich Chiles, Willie Norwood, and Rick Sofield. They all bring back pleasant thoughts of my childhood.
The regular season, really, is what baseball is about. It's about everybody starting off in April at zero, and listening to (and now watching) the games, and keeping score when you have time, and seeing the cumulative totals rise, and guessing where they'll end up. And then, in September, when they end up, hardly being able to wait until next April to see it all again.
The post-season is fun, but it isn't what baseball is about. Give me the regular season, any day.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Switch to Road Runner high-speed internet. Been on it for 2+ years and have never had a problem. |W|P|Please don't refer to the baseball postseason as a "fun tournament." That is what you call the NBA version of playoffs, since the season is a warm up for the tourney, and over half of the teams are invited to play. The only goal of of the baseball season is to secure a spot in the postseason, not to just accumulate hall-of-fame numbers. If a team can't win when it matters most, are they really the best team? The White Sox have proved to be the best in both seasons, and the 'Stros and Cardinals are not far behind. You sound disappointed about the postseason, but really, we knew the Yankees and Red Sox were not the best teams going in, so baseball is a just game. (most years:) |W|P|A-Rod now plays for a franchise that has won 26 world titles and 40 pennents. Jeter may not be in the same ballpark statitsically, but his number of rally sustaining hits, clutch homers, and game turning defensive plays, as well as his all-out play, are etched in peoples memories the last 10 years. The last memory NY fans have is that of Jeter once again having another solid post-season while A-Rod flopped in many run producing situations. Bottom line. A-Rod is in a different place now. He is going to have to have a definitive post-season or hear the same old refrain. SBG|W|P|Dan:How often do you think the team with the best record has won the World Series in the last 19 seasons? Two. Two!
Are you saying that the 17 teams with the best record weren't the best team? Are you saying that in baseball, the regular season means nothing? It's all about the playoffs? That's what I'm hearing you say. Screw the 162 games, it's the playoffs that matter.
That's the same thing people always say about the NBA -- that the regular season doesn't matter. In fact, over the same time period the team in the NBA with the best record won the NBA title 10 times. In other words, the playoffs in the NBA more closely follow the results of the regular season than MLB.
Anonymous: It's good thing that Jeter had a good playoff series this year, because he was pathetic against the Red Sox last year.
frightwig|W|P|By 'definitive,' I guess Anonymous means Alex must play well while the Yankees have to win the World Series, because he did put up big numbers for NY in last year's playoffs. And if that's the key condition, then Jeter really does owe his hallowed reputation to his good fortune of playing for some dominant teams, right? Come to think of it, then, who even cares how well Jeter played in this year's ALDS--or any postseason series going back to 2001? The Yankees lost; Jeter failed to lead his team back to glory; there will be no Yankee parade for the fifth year running. Therefore, he's clearly slipping off his game. What conclusion is there but to say that Jeter now, and in the past 5 years, both sucks and blows?
|W|P|Jeter has been in the post-season every year of his career, of course there are going to be a few clunkers. He 's not immortal. A-Rod did'nt set himself apart against the Red Sox either-other than trying to karate chop the ball out of the 1st baseman's glove in game 6. A move born of frustration and desperationAnd no, he does'nt have to win the World Series. The Giants did'nt win the 2002 WS. But Barry Bonds had a monster post-season shaking a "he can't hit in the post-season" tag.
New Yorker's don't care what A-Rod did in Seattle or Texas. They do know that Jeter has given them a life time of post-season memories and definitive moments. Jeter sucks and blows? Yeah, I'm sure the yanks will have him on the bloc any day now.
frightwig|W|P|Alex hit .258/.378/.516 with 2 doubles & 2 HR against Boston last year, after demolishing the Twins with a .421/.476/.737 line in the ALDS. He did his part.My comment about Jeter sucking was meant as sarcasm; I thought that was obvious. My point is that if Alex gets no credit for what he did in last year's playoffs for New York, and he's saddled with the reputation of an October flop although his career numbers don't support that view, just because the Yankees didn't win the pennant or World Series, then why not apply that standard to everybody on the team each year? The Yankees lose, that means they're all failures.
That is essentially the standard applied to Alex now, isn't it? Whether he plays well or not, if he doesn't lead NY to the pennant, then he's failed. But why pin all that on Alex? If Jeter is really so great, if he's such a leader, why can't he carry that $200 million team to the pennant, whether Alex plays well or not? Is Jeter still the Captain and Leader of the Yankees, or not?
SBG|W|P|FW: nothing as subtle as your previous is obvious to those who believe with their heart and soul that Jeter is just so much better than the best player not named Bonds in the last 30 years. |W|P|I love the baseball season and the length of it, so I am not saying to screw the 162 games. The beauty of the 162 games is that generally the best teams get into the playoffs. They are considered the best because they have proven themselves over the long haul, and all the bad hops and bad calls have averaged out. But yes, to answer your question, the playoffs is what matters. If you think there is one manager or player in spring training who has a goal of putting together a great season without winning the world series, you're out of your mind (with all due respect). The ring is what everyone is after. I seem to hear you saying the World Series doesn't matter, that we should just applaud and pat on the back the two teams with the best records. That would certainly be anticlimactic, to say the least. |W|P|You misunderstood my point about the NBA. I'm not making a case that the teams with the best records don't win it all. They should and do. The baseball season mean EVERYTHING since so few teams have a chance to play for it all. This in contrast to the NBA, where even the most marginal of teams have a chance in the tournament. You correctly point out they shouldn't and don't, win. However, their reggular season didn't mean as much as an MLB team since they got to play for the championship wether they finished 1st or 6th! SBG|W|P|I agree that everyone's goal is the World Series. I also think that the baseball season means more than any other sport.The fact that the team with the best record wins so rarely is a little disconcerting.
I love the post season, but I'm just wondering how much importance to place on it in terms of judging a player's worth.
|W|P|Strange how the world works, isn't it?-tootie
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Correction, it would be how great of a winner he is despite how crappy a player A-Rod is. |W|P|Or maybe, we'd be watching Jeter make "winner" type plays, as he often does.I don't get the whole stathead-hate of Derek Jeter. It's not like he's writing those articles about himself. IMO, yet another example of how the whole stathead crowd is no different than the sports media they love to criticize.
The guys a legitimately excellent ballplayer.
-TEB
|W|P|My hatred of him doesn't stem from stats. It stems from this: announcers think he's the greatest thing EVER. It's like Tom Brady, except Tom Brady actually is one of the best players in the NFL, while Jeter is a good player who plays for the Yankees and is surrounded by players making up the biggest payroll (by far) ever. If Derek Jeter were to suddenly start playing for the Tigers, and everyone would realize that he's good, not great, and the announcers would stop going on about how he's a "winner," I'd hate him a whole lot less.-tootie
Crowd Yeller|W|P|It's not Derek Jeter so much as the over marketing of Jeter which has had little to do with his prowess as a player as much as it has had to do with his alleged good looks and popularity. Let's face it...he's the 2nd best shorstop the Yankees have. He is a figure head..a puppet if you will. All the good feelings fans have get projected onto him. I also think NY is proud of him becuase he's one of a few of their talent who came up through the orginization.
SBG|W|P|That short post conveys two thoughts. One, that Jeter has received too much credit. Two, Pettitte and Clemens are pretty damned good pitchers.I have never said that Jeter isn't a very good or even great ballplayer. It's just that his leadership and "clutch play" isn't worth a cup of coffee without horses like Pettitte and Clemens, et al. Funny, they got there without Jeter. Maybe they didn't need his leadership.
|W|P|Derek Jeter = Scottie Pippen. Maybe.-tootie
frightwig|W|P|In addition to what's been said, I also believe that the conventional wisdom that holds up Jeter as a player who elevates his game in the postseason is wrong, or at least misleading. Jeter in 23 postseason series has hit .308/.377/.463, including a .302/.375/.434 line in 6 World Series. Quality numbers, but not much different than his .314/.386/.461 career line in the regular season.
So is Jeter really Mr. October, someone who always rises to a big occasion, or is he just a fine player who brings his usual game to the postseason but gets outrageous amounts of praise for it because he plays in New York, and because the Steinbrenner payroll makes sure we see Jeter on the big stage each Fall?
Meanwhile, A-Rod's career line in 8 postseason series is .305/.401/.534, and conventional wisdom says he sucks in the big games.
|W|P|Career numbers don't win series as evidenced this year, and probably every year in the playoffs looking at individual players. The announcers needed to say A-Rod stunk because he did. And, the game when Steinbrenner needed this high-priced payroll to come through, Jeter did his job.You can't fault Jeter or the announcers for making these bold pronoucements of his greatness. For the average fan he has created "flash-bulb" post-season memories. Yeah, maybe he gets too much credit, but the production of these games is always skewed to the dramatic. I blame the guys in the trailer who try and tug our heartstrings with their clever coverage and camera work.
Your opinions might be different if you had witnessed all these games by listening to the local radio broadcasts without all the glitz and glamour they like to smear on the coverage.
Baseball coverage, broadcast and print are being affected positively by the whole mainstream emergence of Sabermetric thought. The average fan is starting to realize how powerful a tool statistics are in measuring performance and in appreciating the subtleties of the game.
Maybe this will dispel the myths, but I think we are always looking for heros and goats.
frightwig|W|P|People aren't only saying that A-Rod had a bad series. They're talking like he's made a career of choking when his team needs him most. This, despite his career numbers in the postseason as well as the regular season; despite the fact that he hit .320/.433/.600 for the Yankees in the playoffs last year; despite the fact that he was New York's best player this season, when they really needed him because their pitching was 9th in the league. Forget all that: he was 2-15 last week, and the Yankees haven't won the pennant in the 2 seasons since he came on board, so he sucks.
I bought into it, too, but I was wrong. It's an unfair and absurd script, and I say that as someone who still holds a personal grudge against Alex for the two-faced way he orchestrated his exit from Seattle.
Jeter's had his share of lousy playoff series, too. He hit .200/.333/.233 in the series loss to Boston last year, and just .233/.281/.400 in the ALCS against Boston the year before. In the 2001 World Series loss to Arizona, he hit .148/.179/.259, after he had hit .118/.200/.118 in the ALCS against Seattle. Is it fair to say, then, that Captain Clutch has been spitting the bit and letting his team down in his later years?
I understand that people look to sports for heroes and goats, but when a guy's whole reputation gets tanked because he had one bad Division Series, that's not right.
|W|P|"I blame the guys in the trailer who try and tug our heartstrings with their clever coverage and camera work."I blame Joe Morgan, Tim McCarver, and whichever Buck (Joe?) works with McCarver, for treating Derek Jeter like a god. I need no other reason to hate him (although I have some) than being profoundly liked by these three numbskulls.
-tootie
SBG|W|P|Yeah, we heard all about A-Rod.Question: How much did you hear about Jeter being the goat when he hit .148/.179/.259/.438 in the 2001 World Series, a series that the Yankees lost in seven games? How did Jeter step up and do his job there? Or how about last year in the ALCS when he hit a brilliant .200/.333/.233/.566. Funny, A-Rod was made out to be the goat then, too.
You are right though. It is the media image and not Jeter himself that turns people like me off. We have all been told how he comes through in the clutch over and over and over. Hey, who else has had as many opportunities over the last ten years? A player of his caliber is bound to have a few big hits in the postseason. Prior to this year, he's had 441 post season at bats! That's almost a full season! Of course, he'll have a few big hits. He's only got 14 home runs in those 441 at bats, by the way. Not that great.
|W|P|The Yankees, because of their undeniable success are held to a different standard. A player like Jeter, who has produced manny clutch hits is going to be painted with that brush. When he stinks up the joint he's likely to get the benefit of the doubt. I can see how in an extremely tight 7 game series, with all the heroics that took place how you just wouldn't focus on that. Considering the time - that was right after 9/11, there just wasn't the tendency to rip anyone. The Yankees, for once, were not cast as the villians. They were seen as heroic and a symbol of all that was right about baseball and America. Secondly, even if the SBG has a bad week at work, the boss still forgives him for all the great work he's done in the past. How's that different for Jeter?Jeter has his rings. A-Rod, for all that talent has none. It's a story for the mainstream baseball media. The addition of A-Rod was supposed to bring more championships and guess what, the Yankees are still 0-fer after his arrival. A-Rod will continue to be the goat until he wins a ring. The Yankees should have bought pitching. It's no different than Phil Mikelson in golf. The guy won many, many tournaments and was one of the top 5 golfers in the world for years and yet consistently labeled as a choker until he won a Major. It's all silliness from the fans and media. These guys are cashing those million dollar checks and laughing all the way to the bank.
frightwig|W|P|This comment has been removed by a blog administrator. |W|P|The guy's reputation is fine, despite the media chant, there's not a GM or manager in the league who'd want this guy on their team. Any fan that can't understand the value of A-Rod after looking at the numbers is a complete moron. He's headed for the HOF even if he never wins a ring. A couple of bad series will be a historical footnote.That said, the guys image problem is tied to that big contract and some horrible career decisions. (As FW notes regarding his exit in Seattle) Anyone in their right might could look at the Yankees and see they were horribly flawed. They all talk about wanting to win championships and then never follow through by making the smart decision versus following the money. It's puzzling to me, especially when they've already made more money than they'll spend in a lifetime.
Maybe it's all Cuddyer's fault.
frightwig|W|P|Not many of New York's recent pitching acquisitions have worked out as well as A-Rod has, but the Yankees *have* bought pitching, and plenty of it. |W|P|That's a good point. I guess they just haven't bought the right pitching.It makes you think they shouldn't have messed with Petite and just paid the man. I don't know if Clemens would have stayed, given the arrangment he has with the Astros as far as travel and stuff.
|W|P|I just don't understand why so many otherwise intelligent fans want to hold what Tim McCarver says about Jeter, against Jeter.If Jeter was saying those things about himself, that'd be one thing.
He's not.
That is all. And I wish to heaven we had such an overrated ballplayer at SS on the Twins.
-TEB
|W|P|"I just don't understand why so many otherwise intelligent fans want to hold what Tim McCarver says about Jeter, against Jeter."It doesn't make me hate Derek Jeter as a man, I'm sure he's a nice guy. However, it does make me hate him as a baseball player. The opposite of this is how I like Barry Bonds even though I find him kind of off-putting as a human being.
-tootie
|W|P|SBG - How about a poll question on this topic, something like:Bottom of the 9th, runners on 2nd and 3rd base with two outs, Yankees down by 1 run in Game 7 of the World Series. Who would you rather have up to bat, Jeter or Rodriguez?
Just a thought:
My opinion - I'll take Jeter every single time! (And no, not because A-Rod would be intentionally walked. ha!)
First, I have to back Jeter by simply saying that he is going to get 3,000 hits and his career batting average is .314 with an on-base percentage of .386. Those numbers should NEVER have to defend themselves!
Second, A-Rod is a good player too. Both have played in about 10 full seasons at the major league level. here are approximate averages (career totals divided by 10, just to keep is simple:
Jeter Rodriguez
AB - 617 620
Runs - 116 124
Hits - 194 190
2B - 31 34
3B - 5 3
HR - 17 43
RBI - 76 123
BB - 64 73
K - 109 127
SB - 22 23
BA - .314 .307
OBP - .386 .385
SLG - .461 .577
So, their numbers are very close with the exception that A-Rod adds power to his game. But Jeter doesn't try to be a home run hitter and there is no reason for him to try to be.
There is no reason to bash Jeter whatsoever. So, he's got a clean record and his nightlife and social life is a story in the newspaper. So, Tim McCarver and every single media member thinks he can do no wrong. So, he is made out, again by the media, to be something that he may or may not be.
None of that is his fault. So, who cares? Now, if he was a .240 hitter with a career OPS of .600, the bashing would be warranted, but he's not. He is a Hall of Fame player on his own merit.
SBG|W|P|I would be hard pressed to disagree that Jeter isn't a great player. I've said that he is many times. My beef is and always has been the elevation of Jeter into something he's not. He's not the great clutch hitter that everyone says he is. If he were, he would always come through. Instead, he comes through about as often as someone with his talent level would be expected to do. In fact, if you read my column regularly, you would know this: I don't believe in "clutch hitters". I am not alone in that regard. People who care about the numbers almost universally agree, at the major league level, there's no such thing as clutch hitters. Over time, players come through in "close and late" or whatever you want to call these things about as often as you would expect, given their ability.Given that, it's a toss-up in your scenario, although I might pick Jeter because of his slightly higher batting average. But not because of some idea that he's clutch. If the scenario was man on first with two outs and trailing by one run, I'm taking A-Rod because of his power.
If I have to choose one and only one player to play on my team, I take A-Rod, because that power is worth something and he's also a much better defender. The thing is, a lot of people in the media have perpetuated the myth that Jeter is a better ballplayer.
One more thing. If Jeter were playing shortstop for the Minnesota Twins, I'd be ecstatic. Why? Because he's a great player.
frightwig|W|P|For the past three years, the "most similar" batter to Jeter by age (29-31) has been Alan Trammell; and by the time Tram retired, his "most similar" comparison has turned out to be Barry Larkin. While I believe Trammell and Larkin both belong in the HOF, Tram fell off the ballot already and Larkin may be overlooked when he's eligible because he played in the Age of Great AL Shorstops. Larkin wasn't Ripken, he wasn't part of any contrived "Holy Trinity," he might even be overshadowed by Tejada or some kid still on the way up. Both Trammell and Larkin won multiple Gold Gloves and Silver Slugger awards. Both won a championship. Larkin was the NL MVP of '95. Trammell was the World Series MVP of '84. Now, Jeter has no Silver Sluggers, no MVP awards, 1 Gold Glove won last year after showing poor defensive range for much of his career. But he's a greater player because he has 4 rings?
I think Jeter is one of the better Shortstops of his time. By the time his career is through, he should have a legit case for the HOF. But if he didn't play his career with the Yankees, at a point when they've been so loaded with talent, he wouldn't be treated as such a god. If A-Rod or Nomar had been with the Yankees since '96, either of them might have at least 4 rings by now, instead.
I just get tired of listening to people make Jeter out to be something greater than he is, some paragon of virtue and character who has a special nose for winning or an ability to elevate his game in October. I could do without the idol worship, especially from people who are paid supposedly to keep an objective distance from the game.
SBG|W|P|Good Stuff, FW. Here's another look.The top ten most similar players to A-Rod at age 29 (in order):
Ken Griffey Jr.
Mel Ott
Mickey Mantle
Hank Aaron
Frank Robinson
Eddie Mathews
Jimmie Foxx
Rogers Hornsby
Vladimir Guerrero
Al Kaline
Jeter?
Alan Trammell
Roberto Alomar
Arky Vaughan
Ryne Sandberg
Joe Torre
Frankie Frisch
Bobby Doerr
Travis Jackson
Vern Stephens
Joe Cronin
One of these lists is not like the other.
frightwig|W|P|It's interesting that in an ESPN SportsNation poll last summer, with more than 47-thousand voting, 79.1% said they'd vote Jeter into the HOF, but only 15.4% think Bernie belongs in Cooperstown. Now, Bernie through age 36 has hit .298/.384/480--as a CF who won 4 Gold Gloves, and a Silver Slugger in 2002. He also won a batting title in 1998, and made 5 All-Star teams. In postseason, he hit .280/.378/.490 in 23 series (excluding this year). Of course, he has his 4 rings.
His HOF Standards score is 46.4, which would be a solid HOF'er. But I guess that kind of performance by a Centerfielder, and those 4 rings, don't mean so much. An overwhelming majority in the poll don't see him as a Hall of Fame player.
Bring up Jeter, though, who has a lower career OPS+ than Bernie even though he's still in the prime of his career, has fewer Gold Gloves to his collection, and has a lower HOF Standards score (45.9)--suddenly it's all about the rings, because Jeter is such a Winner. 79.1% in the poll say Jeter already belongs in Cooperstown.
How to account for such an incredible disparity in the way people think about those two Yankee stars, except to chalk it up to the media pimping Jeter 24/7 for the last 10 years?
Another interesting thing about the poll: 90.3% said they'd vote NO on Nomar. This is a SS who has hit .320/.367/.544 in 1071 games (132 OPS+, compared to 121 for Jeter). His "most similar" comparison by age before this season, from ages 24-30, was Ernie Banks. His HOF Standards score is 43.7. But he's been hobbled by injuries the last couple seasons, and the Red Sox finally won a World Series without him, so I guess he's nothing close to Jeter. It's absurd.
|W|P|The problem with the Vikings also pre-dates Red. The Mike Lynn/Roger Headrick era was no better in terms of building a world class organization. I agree that Red's frugality was more harmful in terms of milking a cash cow as the expense of infrastructure, but these problems are systemic.Despite some on field success beyond '98, this was the proverbial beginning of the end. We'll see what Zygi can do. As far as new owners go, it looks like Arthur Blank, one of the founders of Home Depot, in Atlanta is doing a very good job at building a "footbal organization." There are plenty of business models to study - as long as they learn what not to do from Cincinati and San Diego.
It appears Blank is plenty active in the business while still allowing the football people to do their job. Wilf will only be as successful as the people he hires and we'll see how he does from the coaching staff on down.
|W|P|As long as they learn what not to do by Cincy and San Diego...the Cincy and San Diego of 5 years ago, of course. Both teams are now doing things the Vikings can only dream of.-tootie
Other people�s money have helped me get to where I am now. For that I am truly grateful.I want to encourage you to read the Hoarse. We are trying to put together a place that is of general interest. If you don't agree with a post, comment. The guys who are writing there are good guys. We don't agree, and that's all right. Hopefully, it will be entertaining. I expect that there will be some politics, some family stuff, some music and some general life stuff. I have said that I'll write about once a week. Now, for the really good news. I'm going to be bringing back Pepper! starting next week! Look for Pepper! on its new date, Wednesday! I am also going to be interviewing you the reader. I have about five or six people who have volunteered, and I'll be getting back to all of you. That's it for tonight. Come back tomorrow when hopefully I'll be telling the sad tale of Justin Morneau's season. Also look for a final tally on the contest. I know I've let that slide. I'll blame it on blogging fatigue!|W|P|112969306787776137|W|P|The Post Mortem Begins|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Isn't that what the boat trip was for? |W|P|OK, we all know Tice is gone - perhaps even before the end of the season. I'm not sure what the fans expect the guy to say. In the context of this: According to reports, one of the problems is the team is making mental mistakes because they are playing tight, desperate to win and play mistake-free. Morale is low because of the horrible start and because the team has a multitude of problems both real and self-inflicted. Like any job, people start to dread being at work under these conditions.
In any job, you perform better when you like your job and are having some fun, even if the fun is the brutally hard work. When you consider these guys play a "game" for a living, what's not fun about that? In my mind there's nothing wrong with a coach saying this time in your life will be over before you know it. Work hard but have fun enjoying the game you love to play.
Yeah, I'm sure it is just a job or a business for some guys. I think it is hard to separate the fun involved with competition.
At this point, for many reasons, nothing these guys say in the media works anyway. It only gets worse if Tice stops talking to the media. I say, give the guy a break.
Heavy Critters|W|P|I think he's planning on bringing in international call girls, as opposed to just out-of-state ladies. amr|W|P|How lucky of you to have a significant other who pleads you to watch the game! SBG, hold on to that woman and never let her go. frightwig|W|P|Seeing Bar & Poppy sitting behind the screen the whole game just fed my resentment of all things Texas. So I was rooting for the Cards to rally, and when Pujols launched that ball onto the train tracks and sucked the air out of the building, it just made my night. It really was an excellent game. Solid starting pitching for both sides, a clutch Berkman home run late in the game, topped by Pujols' moment for the ages. Best game of the postseason, so far. How can you not be a fan of October baseball, SBG?
SBG|W|P|Sorry to break it to you, AMR, but this story is a fabrication. I wanted to watch the game, she didn't. When it comes to Lucy, I write tongue in cheek sometimes.Even with that, I'm a lucky man to have found her.
amr|W|P|SBG, I thought that might be the case. I find myself watching half the games sometimes, just for marriage-smoothing reasons. I could watch in the basement or make my case that the game is what we're watching tonight, but I prefer the flipping back and forth compromise that usually lets me watch the "close and late" situations and see recaps of the rest. |W|P|Chin up SBG. It sounds like you need a break. Even the "pros" like your close personal friend "Top Jimmy" are only churning out material 3-4 days per week, with the full support of editors and likely some help with the research. (Not to mention it's their full-time gig.)
We, the readers, have grown accustomed to the witty banter and the fresh thoughts. But we're also spoiled because it feeds a habit -- talking Twins, and on occassion some other stuff. We'd hate to see you go the way of the Geek. A guy can only have so many holes in his blog coverage of the Twins.
It's inevitable though. Gleeman will graduate and probably end up behind the ESPN Insider wall. Bat-Girl will grow tired and look for other means to feed the bat-kitties and Seth will end up as the Media Director for the Toledo Mudhens, or something.
Good luck. Get some rest and come back with a vengance.
frightwig|W|P|Fortunately for Zygi, no contract in the NFL is fully guaranteed. He can cut out the problems whenever he wants, and there will be plenty of immediate replacements on the free agent market and in the draft next year. Shrewd management could turn things around before too long. Cheesehead Craig|W|P|We'll keep you in our prayers Moss. frightwig|W|P|I'm sorry for your loss, Moss. Take care. Unknown|W|P|Thanks, guys. SBG, Dad was a well-liked man in no small part because he was a great listener. I aspire to be like him in that regard. Our conversation last night was meaningful to me -- I had spent all day doing a lot more talking than listening. It was good to focus on something else for awhile, and to listen as Dad would have.
And it was good to share the news with you, too. Thanks for listening to me. I appreciate it, and your kind words.
My last visit with Dad, and our last conversation on the phone, were both memorable for me. I am very much at peace with everything. But I still wasn't ready -- no one ever is. So let me just invite you guys to call your dads, or go see them, and tell them that you love them. You won't regret it.
|W|P|I was thinking about posting a comment on Four Hoarsmen. However, it does not allow posts unless one has a blogger account, which isn't happening for me.I will say - gonna give the Stones a try because of your post. Never been a fan.
SBG|W|P|I changed that, bj. Thanks! I wasn't aware we had that limitation set up. |W|P|SBG-Please tell me you are planning a rebuttal for COD's latest post at the Four Hoarsemen. And I thought Rush Limbaugh came off as an elitist....
SBG|W|P|I'm formulating something. |W|P|The lesson as always: You are The Man. |W|P|"Team Concept" is different than team "Team Chemistry." As you succinctly point out, whether you get along well with your teammates is overated compared to how well you do your job. In my opinion, Team Concept is the notion that the entire unit must function in unison when doing their job in order to achieve maximum efficiency. It's the belief that no one part is as great as the whole.
Does character matter? It's hard to imagine a player (or anyone) who is under investigation can completely compartmentalize fully all the aspects of their life. (Most are not Clinton-like mentally, I presume.)
There is a distinct possibility that such distractions could affect job performance if you cannot mentally or physically perform your job.
Also, you can't diminish how an event like this distracts the entire organization. Is Zygi fully able to pursue his agenda when he's dealing with this issue? Is Tice, with his limited mental capacity according to some, able to coach to the maximum of his ability?
Like you, I love the "game". I don't really think about what these guys do off the field. However, if the money in pro sports is creating this pervasive atmosphere, I openly wonder if by supporting the game(s) I am contributing to the problem.
SBG|W|P|If this doesn't make the news, it's not a distraction. The guys who organize it are seen as good team guys.I see the "team concept" as part of the job. By doing one's job, I mean performing on the field and all that details. Selfish play, that is not playing within the "team concept" is not doing one's job.
Am I contributing to the problem by focusing on just the on-field performance? I don't know. I do know that I've spoken out about some of the ridiculousness of player lionization (Jeter) including that here in Minnesota (Hunter, by Top Jimmy. The media loves to create the good guy, bad guy personas. I think that they exaggerate in both directions.
There are bigger problems, of course. Corporations use players and their images to sell their crap. Ray Lewis is used to sell stuff. Imagine that.
|W|P|Certainly, being a "good guy" doesn't matter if you can't play. To paraphrase Bill James from years ago, there are millions of nice people in the world, but only a few hundred with the talent to play big-league baseball, so which is more important? Still, if you've ever worked in a setting that forces you to be around other people, you know it's a lot more pleasant to come to work when you are surrounded by nice people than it is when you're surrounded by jerks. It would seem that this would put you in a better frame of mind, and therefore, better enable you to do your job.Having said that, we have to realize that we really have no idea who in sports is a good guy and who isn't. What we know of these people as people is a combination of a) the side of themselves they choose to reveal and b) the side of them the media chooses to report. Most of us could be made out to be either saints or jerks, depending on whether our good points or our bad points were reported, and neither is necessarily true.
That's why it's best to focus on what happens on the field. We can see that, and make judgments about it. The rest is all someone's opinion.
frightwig|W|P|Media and fans often make skewed interpretations of what they see on the field, as well, when they talk about concepts like leadership, effort, and character as it's supposedly reflected by performance in the clutch. Moss took a lot of shots because he once admitted that he didn't give 100% to every play, but was his level of effort unusually poor or was he just unusually honest about what he had to do to pace himself through a game or the season?
I think Moss also has been an easy target for criticism because when he delivers the big plays, he makes it look so easy--and people can't help but wonder, why can't he do that more often? I know people in Seattle who still complain that Griffey never properly dedicated himself. Greatest Centerfielder since Mays, the foundation of the Mariners franchise, and they'll recount the times they remember him not hustling to 1st base on a groundout. I think that says more about the fans than it does the player.
IMO, Randy Moss was never really that disruptive to the team goal of winning football games. The Vikings were good when the team complimented Moss with a balanced offensive attack; the team regressed to mediocrity when it relied on its star to carry a weaker supporting cast. I don't think they had to trade him to improve team chemistry or cohesion. I think the management was more concerned about getting rid of Moss the PR Problem.
SBG|W|P|IMO, Randy Moss was never really that disruptive to the team goal of winning football games.I'll go further. Randy Moss was the single most important ingredient that the Vikings had to win football games. My appreciation for his play far outweighs any on-the-field transgressions.
Consider this criticism of Moss -- he won't go over the middle. Why the hell would you want him to be clobbered by linebackers when he is the best deep threat in the history of the game? Sometimes he loafed off the line. Yeah, and sometimes he loafed off the line for a step or two and then exploded.
As for off-the-field distractions... do I need to say anything more than I have already said? Hiring hookers from halfway across the country for a sex cruise that included young wait staff? Yeah, well, one time Randy.... um... well. He smokes marijuana, so there!
The Vikings killed the proverbial goose that laid the golden egg.
frightwig|W|P|Don't forget, he pretended to moon Packers fans! He once squirted water on a referee! And the road rage! Don't forget the road rage! Because if anything is characteristic of the modern athlete out of control, it's an isolated incidence of road rage. |W|P|How many Super Bowl victories did he deliver in his tenure? With the gawdy numbers and the talent, why was there not more demand in the open market for Moss? There has to be a reason other than the stupidity of the other football organizations. |W|P|How many Super Bowl victories did he deliver in his tenure? With the gawdy numbers and the talent, why was there not more demand in the open market for Moss? There has to be a reason other than the stupidity of the other football organizations.No, I'm actually pretty sure that covers it.
-tootie
SBG|W|P|How many Super Bowl victories did he deliver in his tenure?That is the most ridiculous argument ever.
How many Super Bowl victories did any of the following deliver?
Barry Sanders
Alan Page
Jim Kelly
Dan Marino
Dan Fouts
Earl Campbell
Steve Largent
Kellen Winslow
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Dierdorf
Paul Krause
Fran Tarkenton
Eric Dickerson
Anthony Munoz
Ozzie Newsome
Ron Yary
Elvin Bethea
Carl Eller
Hall of Famers, all. But no Super Bowl victories! So, what's the big deal? I'd rather have Timmy Smith, who set a Super Bowl record for most yards gained and was never heard from again. Right?
Other teams were stupid not to go after him. Stupid.
|W|P|Hi, long time gone, great time to get back .... looks like I missed the boat (pun intended) I wonder after the cruise did everyone just go home or was there another "venue" for the entertainment ? well, at least if there was at least it is a private deal (untill some "entertainer" decides to tell all for $$$) stay tuned D Comedy Club|W|P|Oh, the power of the punLast week, we missed only Randy Moss' talent. Today, we miss him as a role model. Oh, for the days when our biggest problems were end zone end-wiggling.Yeah. That's what you call eating crow.|W|P|112912570740086964|W|P|Thank God|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
|W|P|Hey, our football team's been replaced by the Portland Trailblazers...no wonder they can't win a game!-tootie
|W|P|SBG-(Love boat issues aside)
Just a question: Are you against the "concept" of team? If someone's presence is disruptive to the team concept, do you feel they should get a free pass if they are talented?
Let's say in your law firm, you have an uber talented laywer who rakes in the billings but who is not a team player and whose actions are not conducive to functional operation of the business. As the president of the firm do you keep this person around or do you bend the rules to accomodate the talent? What if the person was affecting your public image as a business, but was not affecting profits.
SBG|W|P|Good Question:Look for an answer in an upcoming column.
|W|P|Seriously,This might be the most entertaining story I've ever followed! It just keeps getting better now with Mewelde's comments! Ha! This is fun!
Seth
I've been watching Alex for most of his career, since he came up with Seattle, and it's always seemed to me that he's a garbage-time performer, most likely to put up his numbers when his team is way up or down in the game or in the standings. That may not be entirely fair to him. Over a career, a star is bound to fail his share of times when the team needs him most. I know that he was the best hitter on the Yankees this year, and that he put up the numbers in RISP and C&L situations for them. I know he was a key reason why NY beat the Twins last October, too. He doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat of New York today. But I remember back in 2000, while watching his last game with Seattle in the ALCS, even at the time it seemed typical of him to homer in his last at-bat--when the team was behind, 9-4, in the 8th; and that after he'd been 5-for-17 with a solo homer in the first 5 games of the series, he would blow up his final line by going 4-for-5 with 2 doubles and a meaningless HR in that last loss. Until he can carry a team at least to a league pennant, he's going to have those impressions stuck to him in the minds of many people like me.Frightwig is right about some things here. Most particularly, he's right on here -- "Over a career, a star is bound to fail his share of times when the team needs him most. I know that he was the best hitter on the Yankees this year, and that he put up the numbers in RISP and C&L situations for them. I know he was a key reason why NY beat the Twins last October, too. He doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat of New York today." As I pointed out above, the Yankees would not have made the playoffs without A-Rod, pure and simple. He is the most valuable player in the American League this year. He's not the goat, he's the reason they even had a chance to advance. But, here's where Frightwig, who is one of the most insightful bloggers out there, veers a little off course. I went back and analyzed A-Rod's performance in that 2000 series. Using win expectancy (used often at Will Young's site) on each of his at bats for the series, I found that he contributed .411 of a win over six games. What does that mean? Well, over a course of a 162 game season, that would be a 11.097 win expectancy, which would have been the best in the majors this year. But, how much did that homerun that FW refers to skew the numbers? Not much. It added only .012 to his overall performance for the series. (Incidentally, it wasn't his last at bat -- his home run sparked a three run rally to cut the lead to 9-7 in the eighth. In the ninth, he reached base with two outs to bring the tying run to the plate.) In game one of that series, A-Rod homered in a 2-0 win and contributed .116. In game 5, the other win by the Mariners, A-Rod contributed .188. In games 2-4, all Yankee wins, he was about neutral. In the deciding game, he contributed .164, including a run scoring double in the first to give the Mariners a 1-0 lead. With the Mariners ahead 4-3, he doubled to lead off the sixth (he did not score). He ignited the three run rally in the eighth, and singled to bring the tying run to the plate in the ninth. In total, Rodriguez had big games in the two Mariner wins and did all he could in the deciding game. And yet, the memory is that he hit a meaningless homerun. The fact is, most serious stats guys believe that there is no thing as clutch hitters. As James Click from Baseball Prospectus says, "Clutch hits exist, clutch hitters do not. There is no statistical evidence to support the idea that some hitters consistently perform better in situations defined as 'clutch' as compared to normal situations. Good hitters are good clutch hitters; bad hitters are bad clutch hitters." Alex Rodriguez is a great baseball player. He carried the Yankees to the playoffs. It is unfair to characterize him as a loser. But, that's the easy story. It's easy to compare him to Jeter and say well, Jeter has four rings (would have been five if he hadn't stunk out the 2001 World Series, maybe). Of course, in New York, it's World Series Championship or bust. That's fine by me. The rest of the baseball world can enjoy the thrill of the regular season rather than dreading the possibility of not winning the World Series. I'm on the record as saying I'm a regular season guy. The post season is fun, but there's a lot of luck involved. The length of the regular season tends to eliminate most luck. That's where we find out who's really good and who isn't. While the post season is fun and exciting, it is, in my mind, not as true of an indicator of greatness as the relentless 162 game schedule. If you don't believe me, consider whether it is the one World Series Ring or the 755 home runs, 3771 hits, and 2297 RBIs that validated Hank Aaron's career.|W|P|112907179482828746|W|P|On A-Rod|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
|W|P|from http://firejoemorgan.blogspot.com/A-Rod, Career Playoff OBP/SLG, 1995-2004 (103 AB): .395 / .583
Derek Jeter (Anti A-Rod), Career Playoff OBP/SLG, 1996-2004 (441 AB): .380 / .456
I hate him because of the sissy slap last year, but those are some good postseason numbers he's put up, better than "super-winner/god" Derek Jeter.
-tootie
|W|P|Sorry to be a jerk but it was not a "sissy slap"... it was a brilliant karate chop:"I thought it was a brilliant play. We almost got away with it. I was stuck in an alley, boys, there was no place to go. And I gave my karate. I only got to yellow belt, but I gave them my karate. And, again, I think Brandon's a great pitcher. I played with him in high school."
-- A-Rod on his infamous Game 6 karate chop on Boston pitcher Bronson Arroyo
I don�t think A-Rod is a choker either, he�s just not one of those guys constantly comes up big when needed (actually MJ is the only one I can think of that was like that). Remember that Clemens was supposed to be a huge choker. Bonds was a huge choker. Eventually they put up some numbers and people shut up about it.
That said, I don�t feel bad for A-Rod in the least�. If for no other reason than he inspired thousands of insipid nicknames in the T-Hud and L-Rod mold. Ugh.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|SBG, you are the A-Rod of blogging. SBG|W|P|And CC, you are the Barry Bonds of commenters. frightwig|W|P|Good research.For my own satisfaction, let me run through the details of his performance in each game of the 2000 ALCS.
Game 1, Sea 2- NY 0: 1-3, HR, walk. In 1st, score at 0-0, walked with 2 outs, nobody on; stranded. In 3rd, score at 0-0, popped up to 1st with 2 outs, runner on 1st. In 6th, score at 1-0, led off with solo HR off the foul pole to make it 2-0, M's. In 8th, score at 2-0, strikeout with 1 out, nobody on.
Game 2, Sea 1- NY 7; 1-4, single. In 1st, score at 0-0, strikeout with 2 outs, nobody on. In 3rd, score at 1-0, popped up to 3rd with 2 outs, runner on 1st. In 6th, score at 1-0, led off with a single, moved to 2nd on an Olerud groundout; stranded on 2nd. In 8th, score at 1-0, strikeout with 1 out, nobody on. (Rhodes and Mesa fell apart in the bottom of the 8th to blow the game.)
Game 3, Sea 2- NY 8; 2-4, 2 singles. In 1st, score at 0-0, single to CF with 1 out, advancing Cameron from 1st to 2nd; advance to 2nd on Martinez single, and to 3rd on Buhner groundout; stranded by Olerud pop-up. In 3rd, score at 1-3, strikeout to lead off. In 5th, score at 2-3, flyout to LF with 1 out, runner on 1st. In 8th, score at 2-4, single to lead off, stole 2nd base, advanced to 3rd on Javier groundout; stranded by Olerud pop-up.
Game 4, Sea 0- NY 5; 0-3, walk. In 1st, score at 0-0, walk with 2 outs, nobody on; stranded by Martinez pop-up. In 4th, score at 0-0, strikeout with 1 out, nobody on. In 7th, score at 0-3, strikeout with nobody out, Martin on 2nd. In 9th, score at 0-5, groundout with 2 outs, nobody on.
Game 5, Sea 6- NY 2; 1-3, single. In 1st, score at 0-0, walk with 1 out, Cameron on 1st; advanced to 2nd on Martinez walk; stranded by Buhner strikeout. In 3rd, score at 1-0, strikeout with 1 out, nobody on. In 5th, score at 1-2, single to LF with 1 out, runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 RBI; scored on Martinez HR. In 6th, score at 6-2, groundout with 1 out, nobody on.
Game 6, Sea 7- NY 9; 4-5, 2 doubles, 1 HR. In 1st, score at 0-0, doubled to LF with 1 out, Martin on 1st, 1 RBI; scored on Martinez double to LF. In 3rd, score at 2-0, strikeout with 2 outs, nobody on. In 6th, score at 4-3, double to CF to leadoff, advanced to 3rd on Ibanez FC; stranded by McLemore groundout. In 8th, score at 4-9, HR to LF to lead off. In 9th, score at 7-9, single with 2 outs, nobody on; stranded by Martinez groundout.
OK. I'll have to admit that not all his hits came in garbage time in that series. His solo HR added an insurance run in Garcia's Game 1 gem, and he delivered a 2-RBI single to put his team ahead in the Game 5 win. In Game 6, he also staked his team to an early lead, and his double to lead off the 6th put the M's in position to add to a 4-3 lead if his teammates had taken the advantage. My impression of the series was apparently clouded by the disappointment of losing to NY (in a year when they looked vulnerable), and memories of his September swoon while the team was in a tight race with Oakland. Indeed, he hit .241 in the final month of the season--but, dammit, Retrosheet also informs me that he had a .370 obp and .565 slg at the same time. So now I feel certain of nothing.
Except, the solo HR in Game 6, and even his final single in the 9th, really were delivered after the game was effectively over. The series was finished when David Justice homered into the upper deck off Arthur Rhodes in the bottom of the 7th, which led to a deluge of Yankee scoring to put the game at 9-4, and then Torre brought in Mariano Rivera after Alex homered and Edgar walked to lead off the 8th. The team made a game effort to make the score look respectable; but what team at the time was going to make up a 5-run deficit against the Yankees in the 8th, in October, in Yankee Stadium, after the Yanks had just brought the hammer down with a 6-run rally, and Mariano Rivera was lurking in the bullpen? It didn't surprise me at the time to see Alex hit his HR off a tiring starter (El Duque) in that situation. It was a bittersweet moment, with most of the sweetness tainted by Costas blathering on that 'it could be the last time A-Rod bats in a Seattle uniform.' But I had no delusions about it sparking a comeback. The game was o-vah.
You have forced to me to rethink my impressions of Alex as a garbage-time star, SBG, but please leave me my shred of dignity. Don't touch that one memory of Alex in his garbage-time glory. Let me have that one little detail! :)
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Can A-Rod survive the NY firestorm?Will George just trade him and pay a good portion of his salary to do so?
Will the Yankees ever sign a pitcher under 30?
Can the Yankees develop a pitcher in their minor leagues that becomes a contributor?
Will Torre even be back?
Tune in next time, same Yankee-time, same Yankee-station.
Unknown|W|P|How about Lohse, Romero, and Hunter for A-Rod with the Yankees chipping in $8M a year or so?? |W|P|Who needs a choker like that A-Rod. That late-inning double play he hit into was sooooo Cuddyer. Who needs a $200M payroll for that?Seriously, there were so many times during the great Yankee run when you got the sense they just couldn't lose. They seemed mortal last night and to play airmchair psychologist "tight" in the late innings.
I wasn't paying attention too closely, but didn't it seem like when they needed one of those epic at-bats from days gone by, it just wasn't there? Whether it was Sheffield popping out, A-Rod grounding into the double play or Matsui's roller to 1st, it was not their destiny to beat the A's.
Like you, I am waiting for the Mt. Steinbrenner eruption and the fragments of the dynasty being scattered about. I wonder what kind of GM Cashman would be without the big checkbook?
Also, I think I read Theo Epstein's in contract negotiations with John Henry of the BoSox.. Would Ol' George go all "Moneyball" and swoop in and pluck Epstein from his chief rival and attempt to re-work the dynasty from the ground up?
Stay tuned.
amr|W|P|If the Yankees are to blame anyone for last night's loss, I would pin it on the outfield. Sheff/Bubba collision. And every time the Yankees seemed to start a rally, Sheff and Matsui seemed to end it with back to back outs.I'm a little pissed because A-Rod, Matsui, and Randy J were on my Sethspeaks fantasy team. But I still have my top performer, Bengie Molina! 17 TB, 4R, 5BI. My Next Best were Andruw Jones and Konerko.
Plus, despite my hatred of them during the season, I am rooting for the White Sox - At least to win the AL. No damned reason, just what my gut says. Playing and scoreboeard watching these dudes so often during the season gave me a bit of fondness for them, and I still like AJ.
SBG|W|P|The play out there was horrendous. I think Sheffield had it until Crosby collided.I'm kind of hoping the ChiSox do it. No particular reason.
Mr. Steinbrenner eruption. Will the ash spread all the way to Minnesota?
Ben K.|W|P|The thing is: Steinbrenner doesn't erupt anymore. He didn't last year after that ridiculous implosion during the ALCS. Word on the street is that he's sick: Alzheimer's maybe. He'll be sad and upset. But no one's going to get fired. Cashman's contract is up; he's gone. Mel's contract is up; he's long gone. But Torre's here to stay. He's way too popular. The eruption just won't happen. |W|P|I'm not saying Jeter is better than A-Rod, at least not over the course of a full season. A-Rod can put up some impressive individual numbers. But there is also a reason that Ortiz is considered clutch. Check out their "Close-and-Late" numbers. A-Rod has never done anything in the postseason, or really in any game that had much significance. Yeah, I voted for him for MVP (if I had a vote) because of his defense, over Ortiz.
But when it comes down to crunch time, A-Rod doesn't come through. USUALLY, Jeter does.
Also, I think that Crosby had the ball too until Sheffield collided into him. I'm sure neither heard the other. You can't take your eye off the ball. Taht's just one of those plays that happens unfortunately.
SethSpeaks
SBG|W|P|Seth --Thanks for commenting! I did an analysis of the Jeter/A-Rod "clutch" in the 2003 ALCS, using the win percentage thing that Will Young uses. A-Rod was more clutch than Jetes. Then, I did Ortiz. Of course, he was off the charts. This year, I'm sure that Jetes will be shown to be more clutch than A-Rod (no doubt about it, actually).
I find this characterization of A-Rod to be unfair. Prior to this season, A-Rod's post-season numbers are .330/.395/.583 in 26 games. Each of these numbers are higher than his career numbers (before this season). Jetes is .306/.380/.456 in 110 games prior to this season. Each of Jetes' numbers is lower than his career numbers (again, prior to this season). Much larger sample size for Jeter, which allows him to have bad series (like, say, the 2001 ALCS .118/.200/.118 and 2001 World Series .148/.179/.259) and people forget about it because he's had other big series.
frightwig|W|P|I've been watching Alex for most of his career, since he came up with Seattle, and it's always seemed to me that he's a garbage-time performer, most likely to put up his numbers when his team is way up or down in the game or in the standings. That may not be entirely fair to him. Over a career, a star is bound to fail his share of times when the team needs him most. I know that he was the best hitter on the Yankees this year, and that he put up the numbers in RISP and C&L situations for them. I know he was a key reason why NY beat the Twins last October, too. He doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat of New York today. But I remember back in 2000, while watching his last game with Seattle in the ALCS, even at the time it seemed typical of him to homer in his last at-bat--when the team was behind, 9-4, in the 8th; and that after he'd been 5-for-17 with a solo homer in the first 5 games of the series, he would blow up his final line by going 4-for-5 with 2 doubles and a meaningless HR in that last loss. Until he can carry a team at least to a league pennant, he's going to have those impressions stuck to him in the minds of many people like me.
I totally agree with you, though, that Jeter's reputation for clutch performance--or 'elevating his game in October'--is highly overrated.
Unknown|W|P|Ben, Moss agrees that Steinbrenner has "lost the edge." He partook in the Sid "Grandpa Sports" Hartmann love-fest a couple months ago and his speech was a rambling mess. He's definitely losing his grasp on reality.The repercussions of losing in NY have not been as severe as in the past. He doesn't have it in him any longer.
Unknown|W|P|Anon, by definition the Yankees can't go "Moneyball" unless they cut their payroll by about 1/2 or 2/3. Contrary to the popular take, Moneyball isn't about OBP. It's about maximizing return (i.e. wins) on an investment (i.e. payroll), and exploiting market inefficiencies to do so. There's basically no way the Yankees can get the optimum number of wins out of a $200M payroll -- there aren't enough games.
Epstein could come over and try to maximize run differential, which should translate into maximum wins. That would be interesting, even if bad for fans of the game.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|When Jeter came up in the 7th with runners on 1st and 3rd, the announcers said "there is nobody you would want up at this point than Jeter". Then Jeter proceeds to hit a weak grounder to 3rd and if it wasn't for a pathetic throw, Posada is out by a mile at home. Yep, there's nobody better. SBG|W|P|Yes, that should have been an error. Unknown|W|P|Ditto, CH Craig. On ESPN radio last nite, they were talking about "The Captain," saying things like "Who didn't expect him to 'come through' in this situation?" So the "productive out" phenomenon has gone so far that now it is considered "coming through"for your team when you hit a weak grounder. Moss is sickened.BTW, can anyone tell Moss (seriously) why Bernie Williams got an ovation? Moss saw the ovation/curtain call but not the reason for it. He didn't hit a HR or drive in a run, to be sure. Did he make a defensive play?? Thanks in advance.
|W|P|Regarding Williams;I think because it could be the last time he would be seen at Yankee Stadium, unless they beat the Angels tonight.
SBG|W|P|That's exactly it. Williams, a shell of his former self, was a helluva player for a long time. The Yanks already declined his option, and the fans were giving him a sendoff. frightwig|W|P|For me, Bernie Williams over the past decade has been That Guy in the NY lineup whom I hated to see come up to bat in a key situation. Particularly in AL playoff series, I've seen him plunge daggers into teams I cared about far too many times. Too many times, I've sat there howling, "WHY do they pitch to Bernie?! WHY?!?" I have great respect for him. I hope he makes the HOF someday. SBG|W|P|FW -- Williams was arguably the best position player on the Yankees during their World Series run. Unknown|W|P|This may be the only time Moss says such a thing, but -- Kudos to the NY fans for being in the know and making such a show of respect. |W|P|You can say what you want about the Yankees themselves, but I would venture to say they have among the most knowlegable fans in baseball. A lot of the fans are very astute students of the game. Sure, they can be a pain, but if your team had as much success as they've had, we'd be the same way. In MN, we seem to be happy being the "Little Engine that Could."
Unknown|W|P|True enough, Anon. Moss' sentiment is more directed to the Empire than the fans (and their knowledge). As Bill Simmons puts it, rooting for the Yankees is like pulling for the house in blackjack.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|I love Baseball Bernie. Career .298 hitter, with good fielding skills. You never heard anything bad about the guy. No DUI's, spousal abuse, drugs, fights, nothing. One of the best guys in the game. Unknown|W|P|Yeah, he almost reminds one of Kirby Puckett when he played... frightwig|W|P|Except Kirby liked to hang out in pool halls, and Bernie relaxes by playing classical guitar... 'Nuff said?One recent example of their problems occurred on Sept. 14 at Detroit, when Luis Rodriguez was asked to bunt a runner over in the ninth inning despite the score being 4-2. Newman said he received a signal from the bench to put the play on, while people in the organization claim Newman forgot the score.The "people in the organization" are insinuating that Newman decided on his own to bunt. Further, there is an insinuation that he regularly makes that call. They don't say that he missed a sign... they say he forgot the score. There's a big damned difference. Did he or didn't he have the power to order bunts? Did he have the power to order steals, hit and runs, etc.? Perhaps he did. If so, are you comfortable with that? Al Newman, third base coach, is running the offense? I'm not privvy to the responsibilities of the third base coach at the major league level, but in this day and age when the managers of most teams call throws over to first base, for Christ's sake, I can't imagine that Al Newman made these types of decisions. Newman said he got a bunt sign from the bench. The "people in the organization" insinuate that he made that decision on his own. I say that I don't believe that he had that power and that response was nothing short of a smear of Newman. Why smear him? You already fired him. 4. I don't like the "people in the organization" attribution. Who said this? Brett Abernathy? Rick Stelmaczek? Or was it Gardenhire who said it? Was Gardy the "people in the organization"? I'm inclined to believe so. Who else would know whether or not Al got a sign? This quote makes Al Newman look like an idiot. I'm inclined to believe, and this was my point, that Gardy said this to make Al look stupid, and he was unwilling to put his name to it. Hey, fire him if you want, just don't humiliate him like that. I could be wrong, but from where I'm sitting, it smells. Was Newman having problems with other members of the coaching staff? With the players? He was supposedly popular with the players. The article says so. We know he was having problems with Gardy. And the paper says that "Ryan declined to comment on Newman's departure." 5. Newman's not blameless. I've heard from two sources that Newman was on the Barreiro show the other night, ripping the Twins organization, including Gardenhire. Not cool, Al. Maybe you did deserve to be made a fool of in the paper. 6. It all comes back to this. There's a right way to do things as a manager and a wrong way. It's a ruthless business. Guys get fired, cut loose all the time. I believe it is the manager and the general manager's job to do these things with class and dignity. Even if a player or some subordinate mouths off, the manager should be above that kind of crap. I believe that Terry Ryan is. I don't think Ron Gardenhire is. Remember, he's the guy that said "We miss Henry Blanco" when the Franchise is catching every day. He got in Lohse's grill in the paper. Even though Lohse was out of line, I think the manager handled it poorly. Romero? I don't know about that one. I suspect that the "people in the organization" deal is an example of exactly what I'm talking about. 7. I'll have my say about Morneau later.|W|P|112872420233502517|W|P|Clarification|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
|W|P|This Newman thing is starting to smell a little like Twiggy. Is it that Ryan _still_ doesn't want to lose Ullger, but wants to get him out of the hitting coach role? Is Newman getting the axe simply so Scotty can take over coaching third? That way we can get Molly into hitting coach and keep Scotty as a backup in case Gardy needs fired early and often next year.With LeCroy's release, I sense some major *stuff* going down here. Obviously Gardy isn't going anywhere because Ryan needed to get a platoon power hitter off the payroll so Gardy can't misuse him. This implies there is now _no way_ Jones will be resigned and in turn not much of a way Hunter will be traded. Payroll increase? Start scouring your lists for hitters that can play respectably versus righties _and_ lefties.
And what's this Morneau thing? You tease! I don't know what's going on!
SBG|W|P|The anonymous commenter said that we'll probably have someone else to blame Morneau's struggles on next year.I'm as big of a Morneau backer as any. But, in the off season, I will try to evaluate all of the players honestly and objectively. Through an objective lens, there are a few things that I'll have to say that will be less than flattering about the kid. I still think he's got a lot of potential, but 2005 has made me modify my opinion.
|W|P|SBG:I did understand your first post. I think you did a solid job on the train � thumbs and all. I think more than anything you missed my point(s).
Your dislike of all things Gardenhire is painfully obvious. So much so, that many of you posts are heated up and hammered into a shape to fits that mold. This post is nothing different. In the revised post, you acknowledge Newman might have a role, but in the end, it�s still Gardenhire and his lack of class, who is wrong, regardless. I simply find this explanation too simplistic and, well, wrong.
As a side note to this, I�m not a huge fan of the �Tool reference. Yeah, it�s marginally funny and clever. But I also think it�s just disrespectful and mean-spirited. I see it in the same vein of the morons who call Tice stupid and Dennis Green fat as a starting point to their criticisms. I know your intent is not as shallow and not nearly as inflammatory, but for me it just does nothing to advance the argument. You also want to take Gardenhire to task for not being classy. I just don�t see this use of �Tool as very classy either. If this was a newspaper and I was your editor, yes, I know that this isn�t a newspaper and I certainly am not your editor, I�d edit that out. I hope you don�t take this the wrong way. I�m a fan of the site and a fan of your type of criticism. This just rubs me the wrong way.
As far as who is or who is not being classy, it appears Newman was the most willing to talk to the media after he quit and stir the pot. Who knows, maybe he gave the �scoop� to Lavelle E. Neal III and that explains why in the three available original stories (Star-Tribune, Pioneer Press and MLB.com), why the Star-Tribune had the most direct quotes of the three stories and the most detail regarding the September 14th event. Gardenhire admits �philosophical differences� in print and continues on � From the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:
The manager said that, despite their issues, he had no problems having Newman on the staff. "I knew with conversations with some people that [Newman] was disappointed with some things," Gardenhire said. "And I know that Newmie and I had our moments during the course of the year." These so-called �mutual partings� are messy affairs and generally not explained in neat little four paragraph stories. This is a very benign quote. To me, it�s Ryan�s quote that speaks volumes about Newman�s lack of class. It�s like doing a reference check on a potential employee and getting only their employment dates from the past employer.
So Newman is talking behind Gardenhire�s back (the manager and his boss) and Gardenhire or Ryan finds out. As far as the anonymous quote goes, I am not as quick to blame Gardenhire for the quote as you are. If Newman leaked the story � which essentially he did by foreshadowing it on the radio program days earlier � I would guess the organization had no plans to smear Newman, but rather someone placed the quote to defend the organization from looking like stooges. My guess is that it wasn�t Gardenhire, but someone else on the coaching staff. I agree that I would rather see someone attach a name to the quote, but in PR terms, you need to respond to an attack. (Think John Kerry and the Swift Boat Veterans.) The sequence of events seems to be: 1. Newman meets with Ryan and gets chewed out. 2. Newman goes on the radio and trashes the organization 3. Newman quits 4. The story breaks in the Star-Tribune. So, Newman�s out acting like a spurned lover and Gardenhire�s not being classy?
In a corporation, the CEO sets the tone for the organization. The culture of the organization is a direct reflection of the CEO. If you are right, and it was Gardenhire�s quote, the whole thing is as much of an indictment of Terry Ryan�s culture as it is Ron Gardenhire�s character. A good CEO would never let his company slip into this type of abyss without taking action to cure the problem. In this scenario, Ryan must have felt Newman was the problem. Another thing which supports this theory is the Twins are an organization with a bevy of long-term coaches and executives. You don�t dismiss someone with a 19 year history without there being something very questionable going on. One thing I will giver Ryan credit for � it appears he�s very hands-on. I think he would pull the trigger on Gardenhire if he thought he was the problem.
Like you, I can�t let Gardenhire off the hook for his role in this season�s problems, but the guy is showing at least some introspection and it appears he and Ryan are both taking themselves to task for what went wrong. This year�s issues were system-wide and I don�t think you can isolate a single individual. I blame Ryan the most for stacking the roster with too many inexperienced players in too many critical positions. I also think they�ve overestimated the talent they thought they had. My fear is that 2004 was actually the best window for winning another World Series and now the way Cleveland is built, the Twins, without drastic moves, will find themselves mired in 2nd or 3rd place for the next 3-4 years. Chicago�s equally dangerous regardless how their season winds up. If they fail to get to the series, they have the resources at their disposal to fill-in the gaps. If they do get to the series, you can rest-assured they will be equally motivated to continue their success.
Another thing about the class argument; I�ve read in the papers direct quotes where Gardenhire has taken responsibility and admitted some things were handled poorly by himself, including the Lohse incident. No Gardenhire�s not Joe Torre, but he�s not Tony Pena or Billy Gardner, either. Strike that, perhaps in your opinion he is. I�m willing to withhold judgment until the 2006 season is over. I think that will tell us what he (and the Twins management) learned from this adversity.
The issue of strategy is a stickier wicket, and like you, I can�t claim to know what system the Twins have in place for calling plays/adjustments. I�d be curious to see if anyone could extract these answers from the club as to who calls what.
Also, as much as I love Lavelle, and I know he�s Gleeman�s guy, why is someone not breaking this story sooner? I know the beat writers walk a fine line and risk being shut-out by the players and management, but this coaching dissension is a legitimate story. It could be that the discord was caused by Gardenhire�s inept management, and if so, then Ryan�s got a clear-cut case to fire him and then you can call him the �Tool all you want.
SBG|W|P|Perhaps, Mr. Gardenhire will learn from his mistakes this year, and they were legion.You are right, Ryan had a bad offseason. If you've been reading for awhile, you know that I think that the day they signed Jones and Rivas was the darkest day of 2005 for the Twins. If you remember, Mr. Gardenhire said this spring that "Luis Rivas will prove me right." In the context of that statement, he meant that he would blossom into a valuable player.
It is Gardenhire who consistently put Punto second in the lineup. It is Gardenhire who pined for Blanco, even as Mauer was having a stellar "rookie" campaign. It is Gardenhire who called out Mauer and Morneau in the paper (and in all likelihood enlisted Torii Hunter's support in that effort) about whether they were tough enough to play through injuries.
It is Gardenhire who pulled Ford from a game for failing to execute a bunt and for subsequently making Ford's comments public. Ford was right -- why bunt in that situation in the first place? It was clear that Mr. Gardenhire was all over Ford all year long. Meanwhile a player like Punto can do no wrong.
I'll make you a deal, anonymous. If you are willing to submit to an interview straight up -- and I'll protect your identity -- on the Gardenhire issue, I'll drop the 'tool name. Here's the format. We have an e-mail exchange back and forth, allowing each of us to respond to the other. You provide at least some biographical information. I prepare the column and show it to you for approval. Then, we print it and open up the comments for feedback.
I hope that you will respond by e-mailing me.
|W|P|The manager said that, despite their issues, he had no problems having Newman on the staff.--------------
That sounds familiar. Didn't Kobe say that about Phil and Shaq?
|W|P|Solid point. SBG|W|P|If you couple that "I have no problems with Newmie" that is said on the record with the unattributed quote, it makes Gardy look like he could work with Newmie while maybe simultaneously sticking the knife in. |W|P|Dunno about your analysis here. I'm pretty confident Gardenhire didn't call for a sac bunt down 2 in the ninth. I also don't think Newman is calling the shots from third base. That tells me the most logical explanation is Newman missed a sign from the dugout, or, as the Twins said, forgot the score and went off on his own and called the bunt.Not to mention, if we as fans can easily see he's made some questionable decisions on sending runners, I have no doubt Ryan and Gardenhire can see that too.
To me the simplest explanation is that Newman hasn't been doing a really good job, screwed up royally in the Sep 14th game mentioned, and the Twins have moved on.
TEB
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Sounds like the offseason purging has started. Where is the big headline about Luis 0 for 3-vas being cut? I figured that would have been a huge deal here. SBG|W|P|I doubt, too, that Newman was calling the shots. If he's calling bunts on his own, hey, that's a problem in my book. If he did that, I'd say, he was calling plays he shouldn't have been calling.I probably was too hard on 'tool here, though. Losing Newman is a good thing. I just didn't like the explanation of the Sept. 14 game. I'm thinking that Newman is telling the truth. He got the sign from the dugout. If not, why not say, he's calling for a bunt on his own with the team down two in the ninth.
I agree though that Newman should be gone. Should never have stayed out there as long as he did.
I let Gleeman have his fun on Rivas. That was the same day that the Geek hung it up. The Geek was the bigger story here.
|W|P|A few days ago you practically offered to kiss Pat Reuesse on the mouth when he suggested T. Ryan and Gardenhire shake up the coaching staff. While you clearly say you are in favor of Newman going, you are relentless in your pursuit of painting Gardenhire as a bad guy and a real jerk. Actually, you will recall, Patrick suggested Newman be made bench coach in an effort to talk Gardenhire out of bunting so much. Could it be Newman was trashing his boss off the record with some of the ink-stained wretches who hang around the ballpark? Yeah, being a manager of anything has it's Machiavellian moments and this played out like any other. Weeding out the malcontents has nothing to do with being a good guy. It's called doing your job. I'm not saying you want a bunch of yes-men, but there's a point where people can cross the line and you can't tolerate someone whose not playing by the rules.
Because Newman was a "fan favorite" it's almost impossible for the organization not to look bad. Addtionally, as an attorney, (even though I believe you work in IP) surely you understand the vague language companies speak in when someone is canned. I can't comment on Newman's coaching. You guys have payed way more attention to his foibles at 3rd base than me, but I did enjoy hearing him interviewed on Barriero's show.
Also, if you read the article, it seemed clear that is was Ryan and not Gardenhire that was making decision on who should stay and who should go. Perhaps Gardenhire had some input. Logically it seems likely, Gardenhire had imput, but it's Ryan's call. For someone who wants Ullger's head on a stick, this ought to make you smile. To me, the good news, is that Ryan is paying attention to the small stuff. I don't think Hartman ever asked Ryan if the "manager" is safe in any of their weekly interviews, but he has been conspicuously silent in this regard. Also, I head Molitor interviewed by Hartman, and his non-answers at that time make me think he's headed for a different role. Perhaps as you suggest, there will be someone else to blame Morneau's struggles on next year.
frightwig|W|P|I didn't hear the Barreiro interview. What exactly did Newman say? SBG|W|P|Maybe it's because I think Gardy is a bad guy and a real jerk.FW -- apparently Newmie ripped the young guys, saying that they need to learn their place, defending Hunter (apparently taking Hunter's side in the Morneau dustup). I am not sure what else he said, but from what I was told it was a total burn your bridges event.
frightwig|W|P|Well, then Newmie can go screw. It also bothers me to see the Twins leak these whisper campaigns so often when a popular figure is forced out of the organization. But, if he was pushed out because he knocked Morneau and the young guys on the radio, I'm glad Terry Ryan did something about it. I've always thought Newman was a poor traffic director at 3B, anyway. Unknown|W|P|Moss is feeling all verklempt. |W|P|I think the lockout was something that cleartly had to happen. The NHL needed to get it's financial house in order AND take a good hard look at what kind of product they were putting on the ice.Last night you had a game in which the Dallas Stars rallied from a 4-0 deficit to beat the LA Kings. That probbably would not have happened in yesterday's NHL. Also, the Wild did'nt take a beating locally because they had built up a lot of good will in it's 1st 4 years. They played hard, They have a plan and are sticking to it, and they embrace, celebrate and partner with the other levels of hockey in the State of Minnesota instead of viewing them as competition like the old North Stars did. Plus the Wild still have the cheapest ticket prices in the NHL. If anything casual fans became more curious as the start of this season approached.As for baseball, yes, it was a strike by athletes making more money than
anyone in team sports, it was the 8th work stoppage in the past 25 years, and the game did not become any better because of it
SBG|W|P|Anyone, except the NBA. Your point about the game not becoming better is a very good one. In fact, almost the first thing that happened after the strike was Jerry Reinsdorf, who was one of the hard liners, signing Albert Belle to a huge, ridiculous contract.As a very casual hockey fan, the rules changes may make it more fun for me. It seemed like teams were able to attack more, and that alone will cause more goals to be scored. I hated the two line rule, it killed fast breaks.
|W|P|In Minnesota, at least, I think fans were at least aware that professional hockey can disappear if people abandon the team, and the fans don't want that to happen again. Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Hockey started again? Didn't even notice... SBG|W|P|JustBeth -- Indeed. A record crowd last night.CC -- Just because Wisconsin doesn't have something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|There's hockey in WI Silly Balding Guy. I was going along with the sentiment that people don't care about the NHL as much anymore with my comment.
SBG|W|P|My hair is hanging in there, thank you very much. Brian|W|P|SBG: Of topic, but you are the preminent authority of baseball. Q: Will the Twins have any interest in Macha? Either as a manager or coach? Maybe get some of those A's to follow him here?
Q: Why does Atlanta fail to sell out a playoff game year after year after year? First game against the Astros and only 40590 show up for a stadium that holds 50091!
I'd ask these same questions of Craig, but he would need to sniff some paint thinner first and I don't have that kind of time.
SBG|W|P|I doubt that the Twins will have interest in Macha. Whether they should or not is another question. It's hard to tell exactly what Macha's role was in Oakland. Beane obviously calls the shots and I think he pretty much tells his managers how to manage. That said, maybe Macha has learned some things that might change some thinking at 34 Kirby Puckett Place.As for the Braves, remember, this is the 14th consecutive post-season appearance and 122nd playoff game in that time. There has been a lot of post-season disappointment, with just one World Title and now several consecutive first round exits. They haven't been to the World Series in ten years, despite making the playoffs every year!
Pittsburgh had the same problem when Bonds was there in the early 90s. Made the playoffs several times, never advanced, and couldn't sell out. Simply put, I think, is that Atlanta's fans are not all that excited about the first round of the playoffs. They want more.
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|Wow, COD is just kinda mean today. He must of had some Carnation Instant Bastard for breakfast. |W|P|As for Macha, the bigger question is probably, "Would he have any interest in the Twins?" And if it's for anything less than managing, no way. As much as some of us may want Gardenhire gone, I don't think the Twins would eat his contract, even if they agreed with us. TR probably thinks the manager doesn't make much difference anyhow...? (2004 ALDS notwithstanding) frightwig|W|P|There didn't seem to be much backlash against the NBA strike/lockout, or whatever it was, a few years back, either. And I believe that was because the NBA is still the #3 sport (if you don't separate college & pro football), and also they only canceled the first couple months of the season when nobody really cares, anyway. The '94 baseball strike cut deeper because fans had invested their time and energy into nearly 5 months of the season, and for the players and owners just to walk away like they didn't even care about the fans or the competition felt like a deep insult. I also agree with the first comment, that the insult was compounded when the strike and lockout didn't produce any meaningful reforms. We lost a World Series for nothing.
I'm not a hockey fan, but maybe it isn't so bad to lose a season that never got started, and if the game returns with some changes for the better.
What's more important: a "civilized process" for judicial confirmation or getting the right person? I mean, it's a lifetime appointment. I'd say a lot of people go through more to get a $15 an hour job.I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that the notion of a "civilized process" is the top priority for fewer people this time around.|W|P|112854282853887075|W|P|Recollections|W|P|sbg@stickandballguy.com
Cheesehead Craig|W|P|To someday make $15/hr. What bliss that would be... |W|P|I agree. I'd love a $15/hour job someday! |W|P|On the other hand, you could work for Billy "Hardball" Beane. Ken Macha: gone. Too expensive. Hitting coach Dave Hudgens: gone. Team's offense sucked, despite Moneyball approach throughout the organization. Unknown|W|P|As one who has had to sit through an unsufferable coaching regime with the Twins (and Vikings, incidentally), Moss wishes the Twins' brass would mimic the A's. The Twins offense sucked, but the manager and hitting coach will probably return.Sometimes loyalty is a bad, bad thing.